Discussion on "M" - Yellow Zone in particular
Hey everyone...I am finally "graduating" so to speak from # of BBs to the idea of M (I am sorry to say I've not yet read HOH...any of them). I think I have a clear grasp of the concept of M and even the fact that purists feel it's flawed due to tournament structure and raising blinds and antes. I think it's a fine model for tournament play to make quick decisions...but I digress.
What I'm really interested in talking about is the range of hands that are playable in each of the zones...I think that the Green Zone (20+) is pretty straightforward. So is the short stack/ push fold of the Red and Dead zones.
It's the Yellow Zone (10 - 20 M, according to Harrington which I think is a massive range) that I'm wondering about.
I'm pretty sure that regardless of which method you're using to determine your stack strength and hand playability, position will always be a key. The general school of thought on the yellow zone seems to be that small pairs and suited connectors should be removed from your range of playable hands, in ANY position because you no longer can get the appropriate value.
This is what has me a bit confused: if you're at the top end of that zone, can someone explain, in simple English why those kinds of hands would lose value? Especially at the bottom end of that zone where we have to open pots a lot wider than we would with a larger stack, why would we remove them from our range?
Thanks for your input folks.
What I'm really interested in talking about is the range of hands that are playable in each of the zones...I think that the Green Zone (20+) is pretty straightforward. So is the short stack/ push fold of the Red and Dead zones.
It's the Yellow Zone (10 - 20 M, according to Harrington which I think is a massive range) that I'm wondering about.
I'm pretty sure that regardless of which method you're using to determine your stack strength and hand playability, position will always be a key. The general school of thought on the yellow zone seems to be that small pairs and suited connectors should be removed from your range of playable hands, in ANY position because you no longer can get the appropriate value.
This is what has me a bit confused: if you're at the top end of that zone, can someone explain, in simple English why those kinds of hands would lose value? Especially at the bottom end of that zone where we have to open pots a lot wider than we would with a larger stack, why would we remove them from our range?
Thanks for your input folks.
Comments
Basically in yellow mzone you don't want to waste chips, so chasing a 1 in 8 (?)with small pairs and your hoping to hit the flop hard with suited connectors but you are more likely going to face a bet on the flop and turn for a draw which you don't have the chips to call.
But wetts in 3..... 2...... 1.......l
p.s.
I just got home from work and rushing this:p
BB is absolutely easier and more effective in terms of assigning ranges.
If youre already good at assigning ranges based on BB, youre already there!
around 15-20 bbs you have two moves, shove (usually because someone bet in front of you) or bet preflop and jam/call any bets on the flop. this gives you a chance to fold if the board is messy but usually you are going to go all in anyways since if you fold you will be left with too small of a stack. ill often just go allin this stack but you can get complex with with cards you shove and which you bet a normal bet.
you don't really have implied odds to make a set with say 44, you won't make enough money back to try it, but you might consider shoving...
20-30 big blinds you have a couple more moves under your belt a such as bet the flop and jam the turn. you can consider set mining in certain situations but have to remember that if you don't hit your card and you fold, you are left with only the ability to shove....i think of 25-30 big blinds as have one extra play in my belt before im in shove zone.
Im not sure why we would even want to think about hand playing ranges pre ante. I mean in most MTT we're talking level 4 so its rarely ever something we need to consider.
For the purpose of analyzing BB shove/call ranges antes are always assumed to be in.
anyways, i think this thread was about starting requirements, not shove ranges....
Hey guys, thanks for the input but yeah, I was thinking about starting hands more than shove/call ranges although, any insight is truly helpful.
i do agree though, that thinking in terms of big blinds is generally easier and applies to alot more of the current literature and strategy. m is good to learn and understand but switch to big blinds once you get the answer for this thread. and convert your understanding of each m zone to big blinds.....
lol @ relevance?
I tried to find a good article from not too long ago as there is quite a few people asking the same question as you lately, but for the life of me I can't find it now.
Anything more then 20bb or so, I still think in BB only.