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Poker VS Pool

UnknownUnknown
in Brags, Beats & Variance
I have a question on the legality of poker outside of a casino setting. If you owned a bar and charged for use of a table. No entry fee/Membership fee etc. Just a flat rate as you would pay for when you go to a pool hall. Would this be legal in Canada. Each is a game pool involves a table and numbered balls where poker uses a table and numbered cards. Both would have alcohol available for purchase and profit. Can I have some thoughts on what people think about this. You could compare it to golf also as a fee is paid for use of a field as opposed to a table.


Thanks

Comments

  • gordan_geccogordan_gecco
    Check out this thread...it should answer all of your questions:

    http://pokerforum.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=1143&highlight=legal
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    The thread is a good review of the law. Let me add an extra couple of thoughts:
    If you owned a bar and charged for use of a table. No entry fee/Membership fee etc. Just a flat rate as you would pay for when you go to a pool hall. Would this be legal in Canada. Each is a game pool involves a table and numbered balls where poker uses a table and numbered cards.

    First, as I am often want to point out: "Judges are not stupid people." So, any argument that seeks to dodge the liability of the Criminal Code based on a thin interpretation of reality is doomed to failure.

    What is the difference between pool and poker? It seems to me that the rental of a pool table is manifestly different than a poker table. Pool is a game which can be playing without a gambling element. As the owner you could argue "I didn't know they were gambling so I am not a gaming house." But, poker IS GAMBLING. There is no escaping the fact poker is -- in its very essence -- all about gambling. Consider what would happen if you only rented the pool table as part of a game of chance. Then, you would be in trouble. That is the case with renting a poker table. You are receiving money for a game of chance.
    You could compare it to golf also as a fee is paid for use of a field as opposed to a table.

    And, you could also compare it to renting a car, a post hole digger, or a tuxedo. There is a scale from "never used for gambling" to "always used for gambling." Poker is, unfortunately, ALWAYS for gambling. Pool? Often. Golf? Often. Post holer? Pretty seldom although I am pretty certain that men will find a way to gamble on digging post holes too.
  • magithighsmagithighs
    Dave Scharf wrote:
    .....I am pretty certain that men will find a way to gamble on digging post holes too.

    ROTFLMAO!!! Welcome to my life. Wait you're already part of this exclusive club as evidenced by the luggage bet at last year's WSOP.

    Highlights of acutal prop bets with my friends:

    1) Who's the guy who sang "Everyone's talking at me" in the Midnight Cowboy

    This was settled by finding a late night video store open in Downtown Toronto open at 2:00 am. Six of us storm into the video store and ask for the Video. After much screaming and yelling we leave the store without renting anything!

    2) Is -50 degrees Celcius colder than -50 degrees Farenheight

    This was easy to settle.

    3) Does lightening shoot from the ground to the cloud or vice versa

    We never settled this bet.

    4) What is the population of Chicago

    This bet was made at my wedding. We called several places in Chicago, hotels, pizza joints etc. Amazingly, no one could tell us the actual population. Even one of the wedding guests who spent part if his childhood in Chicago could not answer this question. Alas, we had to get the answer on the Net, several months later.


    Cheers
    Magi
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    The most interesting prop bet I've ever made was on who sang "Under Pressure". (The song that "Ice Ice Baby" sampled.)

    I was convinced that it was Queen, and the other person was quite sure it was David Bowie.

    We ended up deciding it was a push. :)

    In regard to pool vs. poker specifically, IMO these are a *lot* different in terms of the Criminal Code Sec. 199-207. I would think it is easy to argue that pool is a game of skill (only), whereas poker is a game of combined skill and chance. It's actually not clear to me whether wagering on pure skill events (pool, golf, chess, arm wrestling, post hole digging, etc) is or isn't legal in Canada.

    Regardless of whether or not there is some analogy between poker and pool, IMO*, renting a table with the reasonable expectation that the table would be used for playing poker** would be illegal in Canada.

    ScottyZ

    *The usual "this is not real legal advice" disclaimer applies throughout.

    **That is, poker which is not licenced by the AGO or OLGC in Ontario (or similar bodies in other provinces). A company leasing poker tables to Casino Rama seems like it would be legal, since Casino Rama receives a special exemption from being a common gaming house.
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