Personally I don't know about 76o having enough value to not squeeze. I squeeze or fold there.
For a while, I thought you were talking about a hand I played at Niagara on Labour Day weekend. Except I was at the $1/$2, had just bought in for 100 x BB, and decided to limp with 76s from the SB to the small raise. It was nearly a family pot (6 of us, IIRC) when the flop came 763 with two clubs. I checked with intention of check-raising, it was bet by a LAG from across the table, folded to me, I check-raised, he shoved, I insta-called for the rest of my stack.
I said "You on a combo draw?"
He said "No, I have trips."
"Ouch. Well, at least I've got outs." (assuming he had the more likely 33)
He shows 77 for top set.
"Oh. Maybe I don't have outs. Nice hand."
I wait to make sure the turn isn't a 6 before heading to the cage for more chips.
As played in the OP, I'm never folding there. If he's got 77, so be it. If he's got a big overpair and spikes his 2-outer, nothin' you can do about it.
Consider the action on the flop
Bet
Pot sized raise from a player who only shows AA, AA, KK, AK
Call from a tight player.
Check raise all in from an idiot who could have a straight.
Attempted insta-over-shove all in.
I don't see him as a guy who would raise preflop with AA, 33 or 45s.
So that only leaves 77.
It's hard to convey in a post what I picked up on him over 3 hours but. I was almost sure that he had 77.
But at the last second I changed my mind an called.
over-shoving makes him a bad player? he ended-up making the most money possible with his hand didn't he?
Did you read the OP? Sure, villain made max profit on this hand, but he routinely limps with big pairs, he voluntarily shows hands before folding, he tries to insta-shove on the turn when that option isn't available (inexperience?), and he has a tell that gives his hand away when he has the mortal nuts. Doesn't sound like a long-run profitable player to me.
Did you read the OP? Sure, villain made max profit on this hand, but he routinely limps with big pairs, he voluntarily shows hands before folding, he tries to insta-shove on the turn when that option isn't available (inexperience?), and he has a tell that gives his hand away when he has the mortal nuts. Doesn't sound like a long-run profitable player to me.
If villain believes he has the mortal nuts, then I agree, he is bad!
To ReefAquarium: Either a) you had a strong read, and chose to ignore it; or b) it wasn't that strong a read. In either case, you really didn't change your mind at the last second. Your mind is not "made up" until your mind tells your body to act, and in this case call. Learn to trust the force, Luke!
Additionally, this thread reminds me of every live player that has called and lost and then said, "Rats, I knew you had the nut flush!", or "Damn, I knew you had trips there!" Everyone knows that its a lie, and the inevitable question gets asked, "Then why did you call?" There is no good answer! Seen this a million times!
In summary for me, I'm never folding here. If you find anyone who finds a fold, I think that is simply someone playing to high, and can't afford the loss.
Sometimes you get cold-decked....it sucks.......but it happens.
Define insta-shove. What were his actions as the turn was dealt?
This is never a fold.
Where is the game located? It has some relevance.
In a typical 2/5 game I would strongly skew his range towards 33, obv he rarely turns up with 77. I don't think a straight instashoves without some consideration of the board pairing.
If you mean true instashove as in he didn't even consider the turn then I would weigh overpairs much lighter in his range (unless you peg his as a player that can never lay down queens on a wet board, which it sounds like you haven't).
I guess in summary if he truly instashoves without considering the turn (it is a very significant turn card) and isn't a huge donk (overshoving an overpair) then I'm down to 33, 45 and 77 and never folding without VERY good live tells. Are you allowed to expose your hand or talk to him much with another player all in? This is an ideal spot to get a lot of info from a bad/inexperienced live player by talking to him and him seeing a reaction to your exposed hand, etc.
He truly instashoved.
This is at Seneca where you can't show your hand.
I say to him, "I have top two and the only hand that beats me is 77"
I get a super strong read that he has 77 and only 77.....
But I didn't follow my read and ended up calling ... bleah...
[Narrating] Here's the beauty of this game.
- Go ahead. - [Narrating] I just got top two pair on the flop,
and I want to keep him in the hand.
Against your average guy, I'd set a bear trap, hardly bet at all.
Let him walk into it. But KGB's too smart for that.
So, what I've got to do is over-bet the pot,
make it look like I'm trying to buy it.
- I bet $ . - Then he plays back at me, and I get paid off.
Call.
[Narrating] My guess is Teddy's on a flush draw.
Burn and turn.
[Narrating] There's my money card, nine of hearts.
I got a full house.
- To the bettor. - Check's good.
[Narrating] Now I hope a spade falls and Teddy makes his flush.
That way he'll bet strong, and I'll beat him with my nines full over aces.
I'm going to bet...
Bet...
$ .
Time.
[Narrating] I want him to think that I'm pondering a call,
but all I'm really thinking about is Vegas and the fucking Mirage.
All right, your plus I have another to raise you.
Um...
Yeah, I'm gonna go all in, 'cause I don't think you got the spades.
You are right. I don't have spades.
[Narrating] I know before the cards are even turned over.
Aces full, Mike.
Consider the action on the flop
Bet
Pot sized raise from a player who only shows AA, AA, KK, AK
Call from a tight player.
Check raise all in from an idiot who could have a straight.
Attempted insta-over-shove all in.
I don't see him as a guy who would raise preflop with AA, 33 or 45s.
So that only leaves 77.
It's hard to convey in a post what I picked up on him over 3 hours but. I was almost sure that he had 77.
But at the last second I changed my mind an called.
If he can raise with 77 in a multi-way pot he sure as hell can raise with 33 and 45s. His raise doesn't really knock anyone out here, and he knows that.
With several limpers in the hands he could have AA here too.
It's just a cooler, don't over think, and don't fold the 2nd nuts.
Fold preflop. What sort of nut hand are you hoping to hit with 67o? Reraising is bad, because the table sounds loose, so you could easily get called in a spot or two, but with the right reads and the right image it can be a profitable play on occasion. You should probably reraise the first time around on the flop and of course you would never fold this turn. Villians "overbet" on the turn was extremely reasonable, and any other bet sizing is rather dumb in fact. Pot size is $750. Any bet commits him and you just took two in the face on the flop. Clearly you like your hand, but you might not like it by the river, so why not jam and stack you?
Comments
For a while, I thought you were talking about a hand I played at Niagara on Labour Day weekend. Except I was at the $1/$2, had just bought in for 100 x BB, and decided to limp with 76s from the SB to the small raise. It was nearly a family pot (6 of us, IIRC) when the flop came 763 with two clubs. I checked with intention of check-raising, it was bet by a LAG from across the table, folded to me, I check-raised, he shoved, I insta-called for the rest of my stack.
I said "You on a combo draw?"
He said "No, I have trips."
"Ouch. Well, at least I've got outs." (assuming he had the more likely 33)
He shows 77 for top set.
"Oh. Maybe I don't have outs. Nice hand."
I wait to make sure the turn isn't a 6 before heading to the cage for more chips.
As played in the OP, I'm never folding there. If he's got 77, so be it. If he's got a big overpair and spikes his 2-outer, nothin' you can do about it.
You can't show your hand in Seneca.
I say, "I have 76, I beat everything except 77"
I look at his face.
I get a super strong read ... He has 77, and only 77.
Do you trust your read and fold or call?
[spoil] I called. He had 77 [/spoil]
i call....instafcknreload....lol nice thread.
I had a very strong read was that he had 77.
Consider the action on the flop
Bet
Pot sized raise from a player who only shows AA, AA, KK, AK
Call from a tight player.
Check raise all in from an idiot who could have a straight.
Attempted insta-over-shove all in.
I don't see him as a guy who would raise preflop with AA, 33 or 45s.
So that only leaves 77.
It's hard to convey in a post what I picked up on him over 3 hours but. I was almost sure that he had 77.
But at the last second I changed my mind an called.
Also why would he push so much with the nuts? Wouldn't any "good" player try to extract value?
And if you were so sure he had 77, why call?
This.
Guy's almost definitely scared/bad money overshoving the turn so you might want to work a bit on your title. Also, I think I've seen this movie <.<
He limped with AA and KK (read OP). Raise indicates "decent hand" (probably top 15%-20%) but not AA or KK.
He wasn't a good player.
Good question. :-\
Only when we have the 2nd nuts. If villian puts us on a boat here its correct, but i'll give you 5-1 odds he didn't.
Did you read the OP? Sure, villain made max profit on this hand, but he routinely limps with big pairs, he voluntarily shows hands before folding, he tries to insta-shove on the turn when that option isn't available (inexperience?), and he has a tell that gives his hand away when he has the mortal nuts. Doesn't sound like a long-run profitable player to me.
If villain believes he has the mortal nuts, then I agree, he is bad!
To ReefAquarium: Either a) you had a strong read, and chose to ignore it; or b) it wasn't that strong a read. In either case, you really didn't change your mind at the last second. Your mind is not "made up" until your mind tells your body to act, and in this case call. Learn to trust the force, Luke!
Additionally, this thread reminds me of every live player that has called and lost and then said, "Rats, I knew you had the nut flush!", or "Damn, I knew you had trips there!" Everyone knows that its a lie, and the inevitable question gets asked, "Then why did you call?" There is no good answer! Seen this a million times!
Run good!
Sometimes you get cold-decked....it sucks.......but it happens.
not possible....^-^
He truly instashoved.
This is at Seneca where you can't show your hand.
I say to him, "I have top two and the only hand that beats me is 77"
I get a super strong read that he has 77 and only 77.....
But I didn't follow my read and ended up calling ... bleah...
[Narrating] Here's the beauty of this game.
- Go ahead. - [Narrating] I just got top two pair on the flop,
and I want to keep him in the hand.
Against your average guy, I'd set a bear trap, hardly bet at all.
Let him walk into it. But KGB's too smart for that.
So, what I've got to do is over-bet the pot,
make it look like I'm trying to buy it.
- I bet $ . - Then he plays back at me, and I get paid off.
Call.
[Narrating] My guess is Teddy's on a flush draw.
Burn and turn.
[Narrating] There's my money card, nine of hearts.
I got a full house.
- To the bettor. - Check's good.
[Narrating] Now I hope a spade falls and Teddy makes his flush.
That way he'll bet strong, and I'll beat him with my nines full over aces.
I'm going to bet...
Bet...
$ .
Time.
[Narrating] I want him to think that I'm pondering a call,
but all I'm really thinking about is Vegas and the fucking Mirage.
All right, your plus I have another to raise you.
Um...
Yeah, I'm gonna go all in, 'cause I don't think you got the spades.
You are right. I don't have spades.
[Narrating] I know before the cards are even turned over.
Aces full, Mike.
[/Rounders]
I had a very strong read was that he had 77.
Consider the action on the flop
Bet
Pot sized raise from a player who only shows AA, AA, KK, AK
Call from a tight player.
Check raise all in from an idiot who could have a straight.
Attempted insta-over-shove all in.
I don't see him as a guy who would raise preflop with AA, 33 or 45s.
So that only leaves 77.
It's hard to convey in a post what I picked up on him over 3 hours but. I was almost sure that he had 77.
But at the last second I changed my mind an called.
No offence but get over yourself lol. Sure you might have a postflop read that he doesn't have aces but this comment is pretty ridiculous
With several limpers in the hands he could have AA here too.
It's just a cooler, don't over think, and don't fold the 2nd nuts.
Good thread and your knack for details is amazing.