insta shove?

Unknown

PokerStars Game #49331596479: Tournament #329010433, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (1250/2500) - 2010/09/08 14:13:33 PT [2010/09/08 17:13:33 ET]
Table '329010433 60' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 2: zulus444 (38878 in chips)
Seat 3: Stackrabbit (13810 in chips)
Seat 4: Markudre (98517 in chips)
Seat 5: bobsmith166 (35526 in chips)
Seat 6: Erikbruls (81669 in chips)
Seat 7: Thxalot (52554 in chips)
Seat 8: forboon (55295 in chips)
Seat 9: Kiba52 (69646 in chips)
zulus444: posts the ante 310
Stackrabbit: posts the ante 310
Markudre: posts the ante 310
bobsmith166: posts the ante 310
Erikbruls: posts the ante 310
Thxalot: posts the ante 310
forboon: posts the ante 310
Kiba52: posts the ante 310
forboon: posts small blind 1250
Kiba52: posts big blind 2500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [Qh Ah]
zulus444: raises 7500 to 10000
Stackrabbit: folds
Markudre: folds
bobsmith166: folds
Erikbruls: folds
Thxalot: folds
forboon: ???

i never will put villain on just a monster but after i shoved i had a few thoughts come up. at first i thought this guy could maybe lay this down, but of course thats sillyness to the 10th degree. no fold equity. so i would put him on medium strength and it seems he wants an all in caller, in a 20 dollar game this late i really have to think he has either a pair or ak, can't even say he'd do this with aq but even with that im still behind. i just think if he had something like kqs or ajs he would have shoved....where am i at here?

djgolfcan

You've got a good hand to go heads up with and villain is rarely if ever folding to a shove. His raise looks like one of two things:

1. He has a monster and is trying to get a caller
2. He has no clue that his M is 6 and he should be shoving instead of raising with any hand to pick up the blinds and antes.

If he is a solid player, then he is trying to induce someone to call or or put him all in now you have to figure out what he is doing this with. AA, KK, QQ, AK are all good condidates and I would hope he would just shove JJ, TT, 99 or AQ in his position.

If he is not a very good player, then he could be making this raise with almost any decent hand as mentioned above.

I probably put him all in with my eyes closed and hopefully I have his chips when I open them again. Your M is less than 10 and you are looking to double up whenever you enter a pot. AQs is as good as you are going to see to do this.

jdAA88

I stick it in

Wetts1012

philliivey

Wetts1012 wrote: »

hof post:wink2:

Unknown

Wetts1012 wrote: »

ya well not sure if you are refering to the chips or the post but i kinda feel like i got a fork in my hand....

but i was thinking an guess i have to divide the chips won when by the chips won when call kinda thing...and account for the bb....etc etc....

jdAA88

Lmao

GTA Poker

bananas?

Vekked

I always hate these spots too when a villain's not that deep and just raises 1/4 of his stack instead of shoving. I think a shove it fine since it's really hard to know exactly what he's doing and although it's bad vs. some opponents cuz they only have the nuts here, some will actually fold or call you with hands your crush, so I think overall it's fine cuz you're getting kinda short and if you're folding AQs you're only getting it in vs. this like 3% of the time which seems suuuper nitty.

compuease

Vekked wrote: »

if you're folding AQs you're only getting it in vs. this like 3% of the time which seems suuuper nitty.

Someone rang?

Unknown

Vekked wrote: »

if you're folding AQs you're only getting it in vs. this like 3% of the time which seems suuuper nitty.

this re arranged something for me.


what if we knew he was paired or ak. i also think if i did take his chips here i can start to excel through some of this field....does that maybe give me some calling percentage.....cause if it does that would convince me of calling.

BuyinBank

With the stack sizes the way they are, you could try a stop and go.

If you smooth call the 10000, there will be roughly 25,000 chips in the middle with the BB and the antes, and he'll have 28,568 behind. If you open shove pretty much any flop, you might be able to fold out lower pocket pairs or AK if the board is scary to him and pick up a decent pot in the process.

I'd still agree with the majority that a 3bet shove is probably best here.

Unknown

BuyinBank wrote: »

With the stack sizes the way they are, you could try a stop and go.

If you smooth call the 10000, there will be roughly 25,000 chips in the middle with the BB and the antes, and he'll have 28,568 behind. If you open shove pretty much any flop, you might be able to fold out lower pocket pairs or AK if the board is scary to him and pick up a decent pot in the process.

I'd still agree with the majority that a 3bet shove is probably best here.

i didn't think of this because i snap called before my brain kicked in, i actually thought for a sec he might fold preflop, which i knew was silly before he even called. but here i don't think there are any hands in his range he would fold the flop to. Is there a scary board to ak?

ill keep this play in mind though as it could be useful for something similar. im always to worried on losing the chips i would gain from getting it all in preflop when i win.....

BuyinBank

Yeah, that's true AK probably never folds, though a J98 might convince them. Most of its value comes from folding out low and mid pocket pairs that have you beat, but that are afraid call a shove because of all the overcards on the flop.

The stop and go is a quite an old play introduced by Greg Raymer probably close to a decade ago now, so I assume you already know it. You need to be in the blinds, ie have position preflop so you can flat and close the action and then act first on the flop. It is usually used in situations where your opponent is almost never folding to a 3bet shove (ie you lose the fold equity which is important because you don't always want to be getting in all-in preflop) but will fold to a fair number of boards.

im always to worried on losing the chips i would gain from getting it all in preflop when i win

IMO, increasing your stack by 50% without showdown is always better than doubling up, even with a 60/40 or 70/30 advantage, because there's no race to run.

Unknown

noted