Tournament at the Emerald
Hello to all,
This is one of my first posts on this forum, and so I'll introduce myself first. I've been playing poker for about 2 years now. I'm definitely one of the internet bred players, as I've probably only set foot in a B&M card room 5 or so times, but have played in the range of a quarter million hands online. I'm not the best, but I'm not the worst either. My specialty is sng's, which I've played around 2000 of at various levels. But anyways, enough about me. This post is about a tournament I played in tonight at the Emerald Casino in Saskatoon. I'm not sure on the title of the tournament, but it was some type of Canadian poker open event or something. The buy in was 100+10 and I believe the field was 122 strong, including the forum's own Dave Scharf. Top 10 got paid from $465-$7000. You'll find out soon why I know the exact amount 10th place gets paid.
I rarely play poker at the Emerald casino for a couple of reasons. First, I only have the BK roll for the 5-10 game which in my opinion is pretty much unbeatable due to the rake. Others can argue with me, but I guarantee you that even the best players are having a tough time breaking even there. Next, I find the pace of the game nauseatingly slow (I'm used to 6 tabling on two monitors), and I find a lot of the players to quite frankly be assholes. Finally, I can definitely make allot more playing online.
That said, tonight I found myself racing to the Emerald at 7:10 to make it for the 7:00 start time. Fortunately, I make it in time and am placed at table #9, a BJ table converted into a poker table. You begin the tournament with 500 chips and can rebuy 500 chips for $25 anytime you’re below 1000 chips within the first hour. I ended up making 7 rebuys. With 60 or so left I begin using my sng experience to steal every 3rd set of blinds at a tight table. My stack grows steadily until I’m moved and run into this hand. (details approximate)
BB 400
Hero J9, Villain calls all in for 400, I call, BB checks.
Flop: ~ 467 check check
Turn: ~ T check check
River ~ 3, The BB has basically told me that his hand is not good and will lay down to a bet, so…I bet into a dry side pot. He folds, and villain turns over a Q6 to win. I then get berated by the table on how I shouldn’t have bet etc etc etc.
Sure my play was pretty marginal, but in this situation, if the BB pretty much comes right out and says he’s going to fold to a bet by me, then I’ll make that bet every time. I know my hand is pretty much useless, but with 50 players left, I think the tiny bit of extra pot equity I get by pushing the BB out is worth the chance to allow the villain to win the hand. Many of you may argue with this.
When I turn over my hand, the BB gets furious. Saying: “terrible play, just terrible play, I had him beat.†For some reason I try to explain myself to the table, and eventually end up saying that it’s my chips and I’ll play how I want to. Honestly though, one of my biggest pet peeves is people trying to tell me that my play was so wrong and that I’m so stupid for making it. If it’s so bad, then exploit me. Ultimately, the BB in this hand ended up busting out. Every time I saw him afterwards, he had some smart ass comment about bluffing into a dry side pot. As I said before, some people are just assholes.
I then ran into a good string of unplayable hands that had me down to 6000 chips with blinds at 4000, 2000. In the four hands before I’m big blinds, I’m dealt 27, 28, 34, and another useless hand. So, I find myself in the BB pushing 2/3 of my stack out as the big blind. I think, any two and I call. Sure enough, I’m dealt 23o, and there is an all in and two calls before the action gets to me. I very reluctantly fold getting 11:1 from the pot. Probably a mistake now that I think about it. Anyways, the next hand I’m all in with K8o and get lucky to quadruple up when my 8 makes a straight.
A couple of key steals when the blinds are 6k and 3k bring my stack up to ~40k, and then I make my biggest error of the tournament.
With around 16 players left I’m dealt 99 in MP. It’s folded to me and I think for a while and then make it 15k to go. Mistake! Called by a stack of around 10k, and then a stack of 28k or so moves in on me. Damn! So its 13k more to me. I’d like to say that I folded and then coasted into the money, but instead I called. Short stack flips over TT, and Villain shows QQ. A ten comes on the flop and I end up with a measly 12k after the non 9 turn and river.
I manage to hang in until there are 11 players left. Blinds are 8k and 4k and I’ve got 13k. I’m one off the button and liking my odds as I can weather another round of blinds yet and know that there are a lot of players who can’t. So I say: “self, you’re folding into the money, fold fold fold. As fate had it, the next hand I’m dealt AKo. A player with a medium stack calls, I push, and end up losing when a 9 flops to pair the villains A9.
So I’m out, 11 place, on the bubble. No money. 5 hours of time gone. As I’m walking out Mr. What are you doing bluffing a dry side pot makes some smart ass comment about not making the money. Perhaps if I hadn’t bluffed that one side pot and the player had been eliminated I may have finished in 10th instead of 11th. Oh well, that’s poker!
Best Regards,
Zephyr
This is one of my first posts on this forum, and so I'll introduce myself first. I've been playing poker for about 2 years now. I'm definitely one of the internet bred players, as I've probably only set foot in a B&M card room 5 or so times, but have played in the range of a quarter million hands online. I'm not the best, but I'm not the worst either. My specialty is sng's, which I've played around 2000 of at various levels. But anyways, enough about me. This post is about a tournament I played in tonight at the Emerald Casino in Saskatoon. I'm not sure on the title of the tournament, but it was some type of Canadian poker open event or something. The buy in was 100+10 and I believe the field was 122 strong, including the forum's own Dave Scharf. Top 10 got paid from $465-$7000. You'll find out soon why I know the exact amount 10th place gets paid.
I rarely play poker at the Emerald casino for a couple of reasons. First, I only have the BK roll for the 5-10 game which in my opinion is pretty much unbeatable due to the rake. Others can argue with me, but I guarantee you that even the best players are having a tough time breaking even there. Next, I find the pace of the game nauseatingly slow (I'm used to 6 tabling on two monitors), and I find a lot of the players to quite frankly be assholes. Finally, I can definitely make allot more playing online.
That said, tonight I found myself racing to the Emerald at 7:10 to make it for the 7:00 start time. Fortunately, I make it in time and am placed at table #9, a BJ table converted into a poker table. You begin the tournament with 500 chips and can rebuy 500 chips for $25 anytime you’re below 1000 chips within the first hour. I ended up making 7 rebuys. With 60 or so left I begin using my sng experience to steal every 3rd set of blinds at a tight table. My stack grows steadily until I’m moved and run into this hand. (details approximate)
BB 400
Hero J9, Villain calls all in for 400, I call, BB checks.
Flop: ~ 467 check check
Turn: ~ T check check
River ~ 3, The BB has basically told me that his hand is not good and will lay down to a bet, so…I bet into a dry side pot. He folds, and villain turns over a Q6 to win. I then get berated by the table on how I shouldn’t have bet etc etc etc.
Sure my play was pretty marginal, but in this situation, if the BB pretty much comes right out and says he’s going to fold to a bet by me, then I’ll make that bet every time. I know my hand is pretty much useless, but with 50 players left, I think the tiny bit of extra pot equity I get by pushing the BB out is worth the chance to allow the villain to win the hand. Many of you may argue with this.
When I turn over my hand, the BB gets furious. Saying: “terrible play, just terrible play, I had him beat.†For some reason I try to explain myself to the table, and eventually end up saying that it’s my chips and I’ll play how I want to. Honestly though, one of my biggest pet peeves is people trying to tell me that my play was so wrong and that I’m so stupid for making it. If it’s so bad, then exploit me. Ultimately, the BB in this hand ended up busting out. Every time I saw him afterwards, he had some smart ass comment about bluffing into a dry side pot. As I said before, some people are just assholes.
I then ran into a good string of unplayable hands that had me down to 6000 chips with blinds at 4000, 2000. In the four hands before I’m big blinds, I’m dealt 27, 28, 34, and another useless hand. So, I find myself in the BB pushing 2/3 of my stack out as the big blind. I think, any two and I call. Sure enough, I’m dealt 23o, and there is an all in and two calls before the action gets to me. I very reluctantly fold getting 11:1 from the pot. Probably a mistake now that I think about it. Anyways, the next hand I’m all in with K8o and get lucky to quadruple up when my 8 makes a straight.
A couple of key steals when the blinds are 6k and 3k bring my stack up to ~40k, and then I make my biggest error of the tournament.
With around 16 players left I’m dealt 99 in MP. It’s folded to me and I think for a while and then make it 15k to go. Mistake! Called by a stack of around 10k, and then a stack of 28k or so moves in on me. Damn! So its 13k more to me. I’d like to say that I folded and then coasted into the money, but instead I called. Short stack flips over TT, and Villain shows QQ. A ten comes on the flop and I end up with a measly 12k after the non 9 turn and river.
I manage to hang in until there are 11 players left. Blinds are 8k and 4k and I’ve got 13k. I’m one off the button and liking my odds as I can weather another round of blinds yet and know that there are a lot of players who can’t. So I say: “self, you’re folding into the money, fold fold fold. As fate had it, the next hand I’m dealt AKo. A player with a medium stack calls, I push, and end up losing when a 9 flops to pair the villains A9.
So I’m out, 11 place, on the bubble. No money. 5 hours of time gone. As I’m walking out Mr. What are you doing bluffing a dry side pot makes some smart ass comment about not making the money. Perhaps if I hadn’t bluffed that one side pot and the player had been eliminated I may have finished in 10th instead of 11th. Oh well, that’s poker!
Best Regards,
Zephyr
Comments
Lots of great details there. I really enjoyed the post.
One thing, I would have to say I don't like the bluffing into a dry side pot. There's a recent post on this under the title 'gentlemen's agreement'. Have a look at the logic.
This is a very good finish for someone who doesn't hit the B&M casinos much. The frustrating part is finishing on the bubble. You'd have felt better if you'd finished 20th.
Tough break, bubbling out. As for bluffing at the Dry side pot, I have to agree with PkrFace it is not something I would have done. Especially if it means that you can coast up one easy spot had the other player been able to win it.
1 question did you believe at that point that against the all-in you were ahead or behind. You figured that the BB had completely missed, did you not?
There are many many situations where bluffing at a dry side pot is a positive move. The situation in my post is a very marginal one as my hand basically beats nothing. But, if I know that the other opponent will fold for sure, then my move is ok. There was 1200 chips in the pot which was a fair amount at that point. If I can increase my chances at winning those chips even a tiny bit I think it's worth it. If I held Ace high this move isn't even close.
Quite frankly, the "gentlemen's agreement" is something very exploitable that can allow a thinking player to win a pot with a second best hand. At the tournament last night, the stacks were so shallow that often 3BB would be 50% of ones stack. Checking it down is a grave error in many situations. Of course there are many situations where it is correct to check it down. With 50 players left you're $EV simply doesn't increase that much by eliminating one player.
I did have trouble dealing with my bubble finish last night. The money was not really a big deal, but nevertheless it felt like I was punched in the stomac when I left. I guess that's one of the differences between internet and B & M.
Best Regards,
Zephyr
What are you hoping your still-live opponent will have that he can call you with that you can beat? Here is a classic case of you either winning absolutely nothing, or losing a bunch of chips. The reason you can't win more than nothing is because you have jack-high. The chances that the all-in player will be able to beat jack-high are very very good, so you can expect nothing from him. The chances that your 'live' opponent will call you with a hand that is worse than jack-high are pretty much nil, so you can expect nothing from him. He may call you with a hand that can beat you though, so even worse than getting nothing would be losing something, which would be the case if your 'live' opponent called you.
Note that I'm not making any reference to eliminating the other player--as you mentioned, with a lot of players left, it's not an issue. I'm only talking about the relative advantages and disadvantages of bluffing into a dry side-pot with jack-high, and all I see are disadvantages, because the all-in player will very likely beat you and win the main pot, and the 'live' player will only call you if he can beat you. Even if you do get him to fold a small pair or some such hand, you win exactly nothing.
I'd like this play a LOT better if you had at least ace-high. Getting your live opponent to fold a possible small pair, leaving you to take a respectable ace-high against the all-in player would be a smart play. But with the jack-high, you gotta be thinking 'what can I beat, and why would I put any chips into the middle?'.
Hope that helps,
all_aces
From re-reading your initial post, what I understand is when you bluffed at the side pot you only were holding a Jack High. Not even a pair. I was wondering what you thought the All-in held, since he easily could have pushed with any A/K/Q/J combination of cards at that point since he was so short stacked. Did you think you had a chance of even winning the main. I mean yes by removing the other player from the equation you increased your chance a fair amount but, if I was in that situation, holding your cards, there is no way I would even think I was ahead on the hand, against an all-in and a free look at the flop from the BB. I think it was a very questionable bet, however the other player(s) at the table berating you constantly for it was poor attitude on theirs.
Damn you said what I wanted to say only much better.... LOL
I agree with you for the most part, and aknowledge that my J high hand has a very small chance of beating the all in player. Of course I think I'm behind when I make this play. This play would be terrible if I wasn't almost positive that the BB was going to fold. But I was positive that he'd fold, and thus took no risk when betting as the money I was putting in the middle was coming back to me. Of course I can't be 100% positive that he'd fold, but I was say 99% sure he would.
The problem here is that I only beat a couple of hands, which are unlikely holdings of the all-in player. With a hand like K high, I think this play is absolutely mandatory.
I'll admit, I didn't put a tonne of analysis on this hand at the time. I "knew" that the BB would fold to a bet, and that this in turn would increase my chances of winning the pot. In this case the increased chance of winning the pot was tiny, but the risk was also tiny. So I guess it depends which tiny is bigger? Had I actually considered what hands I'd beat, I'd probably have realized that my chances of beating the all-in player were basically zero. However, this was somewhat of a default play at the time. Typically my hand is not this weak in this situation, and so my play is positive.
Only my opinion,
Zephyr