Starting requirements - Suited Ace
Just wonder what most players use as starting requirements for suited ace/rag . I limp a lot with suited ace/rag and usually will see a flop in a multi way raised pot. Might raise it in late position if there are a lot of limpers. Try to stay away from suited king/rag as run into ace high flushes a lot. Thoughts?
Comments
uh . . . 2 cards?
I find I call off a lot of chips with Ace-x and especially in a raised pot where I know I am going to face a continuation bet on the flop. This is from a cash game perspective.
Fold to any raise, raise to no action in front if in mid - late position (depending on table / your image). Limp with position (raise if habitual limp / folders).
I honestly re-read that right now, and even I don't like the summary .... Ax is a losing hand, period. If you aren't very good at poker, you'll lose a lot of money. If you're good at poker, you'll only lose a little money.
Mark
I am speaking mainly about Ax suited only. I think there is money to be made with Ax suited and it should be in your starting hand considerations. A2-A5 also have the straight draw potential, when combined with a flush draw, can be great in certain situations.
No
Mark
it wins some big pots when you play it aggressively and are facing other players chasing the same flush. I remember flopping an ace high flush and betting it down to the river when a fourth suited card hit on the river and the other players showed weaker flushes. Some players fall in love with flushes, no matter what their high card is.
Even I can recognize this post as an example of "confirmation bias" . . .
What about all the hands where the flush did not come through, and you had to bail? Not a good enough reason to change my mind.
I guess that is why I am asking the question. Trying to determine what players use to assess whether they play A-x suited. Didn't realize it was so frowned upon. Looking at Pokerstove stats, as an example:
KcKd vs:
Ah3h - 33%
6h7h - 23%
10hJh - 20%
AcAd vs:
Ah3h - 12%
6h7h - 23%
10hJh - 22%
I know a lot of players will play suited connectors in a raised pot (67 and 10J in this example), which are less of a favourite in this situation. Although, A3h is dominated against AA. Against KK, its hard to continue with A3h when an Ace comes on the flop, etc. as your kicker is so weak. Your really hoping to hit a flush draw with Ax suited, not TP.
This is a heads up situation which I wouldn't typically favour playing a suited ace. I'm looking for a multi way pot to play this hand.
I would rather give up that small portion of profit, than risk the pitfalls of bigger losses.
All that said, I suck at poker, so take it for what it's worth.
If I simply pair my Ace, it's easy for me to get away from the hand and just dump it for fear of being out-kicked. What I want is to flop a flush draw, two pair, or even trips. Say you limp with A-5 and someone else has A-K or A-Q... you'll get paid quite a bit if flop comes something like A-5-8. Or how about a flop 2-5-5? Again... flush draw, straight draw in some cases. I want to flop a big hand (2 pair or better) or a big draw. Otherwise I'll check fold.
That's just IMO... and I'm curious... for those who don't play A-x, how do you play suited connectors, if at all? Just curious...
Ding ding ding, I was waiting for you to come along.:wink2:
Im going to let her type it.
na[oj kq\k kpwkf qpflflllfffffffffffffffffffef f,,
/thread.
I find aces and kings to be only mildly profitable since you have the potential to lose alot on a hand in a cold deck.
Level?
Live action cash games will (nearly) never be too nitty to make these hands unprofitable!
I find this comment strange. The super-tight, winning players I know make close to 50% of their profits from AA.
The good SLAGy and LAGy players I know also make a fair bit from AA, as it's harder for their opponents to put them on AA.
Axs falls into a broad category of hands that I would play based on position, aggression and my opponents. They should be profitable through a combination of making flushes, fold equity, and playing smaller pots that go to showdown when you hit your Ace and your opponent refuses to fold a pair.
Multiway pots are nice with Axs in limit, but in no-limit you're better off to isolate and punish the weaker players at the table and try to get headsup preflop.
It all depends on your strategy. For quite a while I made most of my money playing full ring cash from winning non-SD pots. With that kind of strategy, the cards really don't matter.
And this. ^^^^
I bent my Wookie.
Full ring games I'm opening AJs+ in EP, ATs+ in MP and A2s+ in LP. 6max I'm opening all Axs from all positions especially if there's a fish in the blinds.
Anything lower than AT and your kicker doesn't really matter anymore because you can't play for big pot value and you do need to be able to get away from top pair facing a lot of heat. Because of that, A2-A5 are actually better hands than A6-A9 due to the added straight value.
And it's not only narrow margin of boards that we flop something. Backdoor draws are extremely important. Take for example A5ss vs A5o on a J73r board with 1 spade and we cbet. Any spade on the turn gives us 9 outs to legitimately stay aggressive. Add to that any 2, 4, or 6 give us gutshots, an Ace may give us the best hand plus we might be able to barrel our opponent off a middle pair if the turn is a Q or K. Comparatively, A5o still only has 3 outs and the occasional gutshot most of the time.
That's a total of 27 turn cards for our A5s which are going to hit 54% of the time that we can profitably double barrel on a very inoccuace board that at first glance we completely missed.
We also have a ton of equity against everything whenever we do flop a flush draw. We cooler smaller flush draws and we're flipping or slightly ahead of any 1 pair hand on the flop and have 32% equity even against sets. It's great for your image to be able to shove some of those flops with a ton of equity without a set or overpair to help you get paid off more when you do have those hands.
Cliffnotes: Axs is the ultimate semi-bluff hand.
I fcuking hate cats... explains a lot.