comments?

reibsreibs
in MTT Strategy
Kinda lost by this turn shove, it seems weak to me.... Can he really float me with Ace High here? Is this a snap fold? Am I an idiot? villain was 40/20/50 thru 20 hands.


PokerStars Game #46816284906: Tournament #291976091, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2010/07/15 17:06:11 ET
Table '291976091 11' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: REEBS77 (8812 in chips)
Seat 3: paaaatz (11550 in chips)
Seat 4: buzzwerf (3815 in chips)
Seat 5: lilpnoyeggot (3490 in chips)
Seat 6: Getupsk1 (4533 in chips)
Seat 7: nelson_neto (25051 in chips)
Seat 8: radmanjeff (1301 in chips)
Seat 9: 2muchluv (3715 in chips)
REEBS77: posts the ante 25
paaaatz: posts the ante 25
buzzwerf: posts the ante 25
lilpnoyeggot: posts the ante 25
Getupsk1: posts the ante 25
nelson_neto: posts the ante 25
radmanjeff: posts the ante 25
2muchluv: posts the ante 25
nelson_neto: posts small blind 125
radmanjeff: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to REEBS77 [Qs Qc]
2muchluv: folds
REEBS77: raises 375 to 625
paaaatz: folds
buzzwerf: folds
lilpnoyeggot: folds
Getupsk1: folds
nelson_neto: calls 500
radmanjeff: folds
*** FLOP *** [4d 7h Jc]
nelson_neto: checks
REEBS77: bets 888
nelson_neto: calls 888
*** TURN *** [4d 7h Jc] [Ah]
nelson_neto: bets 6750
REEBS77: :o

Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    its possible hes on a flush draw or pissed off his qj just ran into an ace but honestly you can find a better spot than this. i promised myself i would deeply consider folding when the blinds play back at me like this.

    no need to 'snap' fold though
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Ur never good with villains line here.
  • reibsreibs
    darbday wrote: »
    no need to 'snap' fold though

    I was more asking if I was an idiot for considering the call. lol

    My thinking was this. If he hit his two pair or something similar, why would he take the lead on the turn. I have shown great strength, and will likely bet again on turn, even if I had AK AQ type hands. However, now that the flush is on board its possible he shoves a set here.

    The hands that came to mind were suited broadway cards that were too pretty to fold preflop and hit the jack on the flop. I was thinking like KJ/QJ/10J of hearts would do this. probably also some 89s, and 910s do this too.

    I dunno I was really confused in this spot and I made the crying call/shove and he turned over A7 for two pair.

    I can see his play, thinking his 7 was possibly the best hand on the flop, so peel another card and re-evaluate, but once you make the near nuts, why shove? -
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    reibs wrote: »

    I can see his play, thinking his 7 was possibly the best hand on the flop, so peel another card and re-evaluate, but once you make the near nuts, why shove? -

    Because people will call!
  • philliiveyphilliivey
    reibs wrote: »
    I was more asking if I was an idiot for considering the call. lol

    yes.:)

    My thinking was this. If he hit his two pair or something similar, why would he take the lead on the turn. I have shown great strength, and will likely bet again on turn, even if I had AK AQ type hands. However, now that the flush is on board its possible he shoves a set here.

    The hands that came to mind were suited broadway cards that were too pretty to fold preflop and hit the jack on the flop. I was thinking like KJ/QJ/10J of hearts would do this. probably also some 89s, and 910s do this too.

    I dunno I was really confused in this spot and I made the crying call/shove and he turned over A7 for two pair.

    I can see his play, thinking his 7 was possibly the best hand on the flop, so peel another card and re-evaluate, but once you make the near nuts, why shove? -



    Cause he knew you were a idiot who was going to call with a premo pair or AQ,AK.;)
  • reibsreibs
    philliivey wrote: »


    Cause he knew you were a idiot who was going to call with a premo pair or AQ,AK.;)

    well i damn near folded ... more called out of curiosity than anything as i had like 4 running at this time. oops. im a donk :(
  • philliiveyphilliivey
    reibs wrote: »
    well i damn near folded ... more called out of curiosity than anything as i had like 4 running at this time. oops. im a donk :(



    meh, would not feel too bad, he was a very loose player. :)
  • UnknownUnknown
    reibs wrote: »
    but once you make the near nuts, why shove?


    i can answer this decently i believe. first of all its a donkey play (although ive read at higher levels in a specific situation a pro might do it to make you think its a bluff). but at lower levels the villain may thinks its a smart bluff but we know its not because it rarely gets paid off by a weaker hand.

    And we know the smart thing to do if we were villain and had a hand is make a bet the flush draw shouldn't call, and if we were the villain and bluffing we would make a more reasonable bluff.......bottom line, either way, the bet on the turn screams he's a donkey....

    the problem people don't always consider is a donk will do both plays-knowing hes over betting either situation doesn't give us any information either way. You need more information to pick this off as a bluff, so you're not an idiot for considering it because at these levels sometimes you can find a way to read it as a bluff....so i don't think its a snap fold, but after considering it for a moment and finding you have no more info to go on you'd have to let it go.
  • HVEEPOKERHVEEPOKER
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    Because people will call!

    I agree with Wetts. Simply because it's Bingo Stars and every flush chasing, donkey fricking river rat will call.

    Caught his ace on the turn and he had you by the short and curlies.
  • VekkedVekked
    He's just not bluffing that often cuz he's putting you on Ax a ton, not Jx or QQ-KK that he suddenly decides to bluff the A scare card. Obv his line doesn't make much sense since it's far from optimal with almost anything, but we have to try to dumb ourselves down and figure out if he'd actually bluff this way, and why he wouldn't just raise the flop, or bet smaller if he was bluffing.

    Fwiw bet at least 1100-1200 on this flop. It doesn't have a flush draw, but vs. a 40/20 this is a really wet board that hits a lot of his range and he won't fold like any pair on this board almost regardless of your bet-size.
  • reibsreibs
    Vekked wrote: »
    He's just not bluffing that often cuz he's putting you on Ax a ton, not Jx or QQ-KK that he suddenly decides to bluff the A scare card. Obv his line doesn't make much sense since it's far from optimal with almost anything, but we have to try to dumb ourselves down and figure out if he'd actually bluff this way, and why he wouldn't just raise the flop, or bet smaller if he was bluffing.

    Fwiw bet at least 1100-1200 on this flop. It doesn't have a flush draw, but vs. a 40/20 this is a really wet board that hits a lot of his range and he won't fold like any pair on this board almost regardless of your bet-size.


    thanks! i will keep this in mind in the future...
  • UnknownUnknown
    Vekked wrote: »
    He's just not bluffing that often cuz he's putting you on Ax a ton

    ...and this.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    I think it is an easy fold, you still have about 25 or more BB with a fold on the turn. You will be able to find a better spot than this. He couldve even flopped 2 pair and seeing the A he may of thought you hit it. I see this a lot when people flop a big pair and just call then bet hard when an A pops off.
  • jdAA88jdAA88
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    I think it is an easy fold, you still have about 25 or more BB with a fold on the turn. You will be able to find a better spot than this. He couldve even flopped 2 pair and seeing the A he may of thought you hit it. I see this a lot when people flop a big pair and just call then bet hard when an A pops off.

    Agree, and sometimes he also has AJ here and doesn't want you checking behind on the turn.

    His turn bet-size is obv LOL WTF and I used to sometimes level myself into thinking "villain can never have a good hand here because, if he did, why would he play it so stupidly" but you must remember that there are a lot of idiots out there playing micro-->small stakes mtts that just don't have a clue and don't care.
  • UnknownUnknown
    here is a similar situation that warrants a call....


    Full Tilt Poker Game #22420989241: $2 + $0.20 Tournament (172956604), Table 24 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:28:04 ET - 2010/07/18
    Seat 1: italian9778 (5,035)
    Seat 2: george5262 (3,568)
    Seat 3: TheZodiac6 (2,581)
    Seat 4: EROFL (2,820)
    Seat 5: mair36 (9,145)
    Seat 6: Tatlex (5,080)
    Seat 7: franktieken (1,665)
    Seat 8: forboon (2,895)
    Seat 9: nosferatu1 (3,211)
    TheZodiac6 posts the small blind of 25
    EROFL posts the big blind of 50
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to forboon [Ks As]
    mair36 folds
    Tatlex has 15 seconds left to act
    Tatlex calls 50
    franktieken calls 50
    forboon raises to 200
    nosferatu1 folds
    italian9778 folds
    george5262 folds
    TheZodiac6 folds
    EROFL folds
    Tatlex calls 150
    franktieken calls 150
    *** FLOP *** [Ad 5c 7s]
    Tatlex has 15 seconds left to act
    Tatlex bets 150
    franktieken calls 150
    forboon has 15 seconds left to act
    forboon raises to 475
    Tatlex has 15 seconds left to act
    Tatlex calls 325
    franktieken calls 325
    *** TURN *** [Ad 5c 7s] [5d]
    Tatlex bets 4,405, and is all in
    franktieken folds
    forboon....
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