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phil gordon, little green book/pot odds

UnknownUnknown
in No Limit / Pot Limit Holdem
(pg 190)

he puts up a chart that analyzes your opponents bet in relation to the pot and how many outs you have. but it explains ....if my opponent bets X amount and is all in after the flop.

what if he isn't all in and has chips left how does that change things.....


im thinking i would have to analyze the turn by itself and could use the river chart because it deals with one card to come. and then i would have to predict a few river lines and add the analysis to my turn call?



am i ...sense?

Comments

  • CerberusCerberus
    I've read this book too. I believe once you get away from all in you're looking at implied odds, as well as pot odds. So, for instance, if we both have 200BB stacks and you bet 15BB preflop that I read correctly as KK/AA, even though I'm not getting the right pot odds, my implied odds of being able to get the rest of your stack make it worth me calling with a small pocket pair or suited connectors. Implied odds depend a lot more on being able to know your opponent. If I know you can't fold KK/AA no matter what flop hits, I'll take that shot to see a flop.
  • toronto416toronto416
    I wouldn't want to read anything written by Phil Gordon.... lol.
  • syphilaidssyphilaids
    toronto416 wrote: »
    I wouldn't want to read anything written by Phil Gordon.... lol.

    agreed. I've read both books and both are dated.
    If he has chips behind it will change the hand completely. Depending on his stack, you might need to fold or raise.
  • UnknownUnknown
    the pot odds chart decide you will call if the bet vs pot is a certain size, AND VILLAIN IS ALL IN. how does it change if he has more chips....does it make it more or less of a call? how does the math change......i don't really know how to ask it better but the question wasn't really answered

    thx.

    and the book is great ;)
  • syphilaidssyphilaids
    like I said, it depends on his stack. If he bets half his chips on a pot sized bet you have to fold. You're not getting the odds to go for 2 streets, and if he ships the turn when you miss you're just burning money
    If he bets 1/4 his chips on a 1/4 pot sized bet then its profitable for you to ship. You can win 2 ways, he folds, or he calls and you're getting the right odds to chase yoru draw for 2 streets. You need to narrow your question its too vague, each scenario is different.
  • UnknownUnknown
    syphilaids wrote: »
    like I said, it depends on his stack. If he bets half his chips on a pot sized bet you have to fold. You're not getting the odds to go for 2 streets, and if he ships the turn when you miss you're just burning money
    If he bets 1/4 his chips on a 1/4 pot sized bet then its profitable for you to ship. You can win 2 ways, he folds, or he calls and you're getting the right odds to chase yoru draw for 2 streets. You need to narrow your question its too vague, each scenario is different.


    yes its possible im being vague, i won't understand how to ask this till i know the answer.

    but for example the first line of the chart says if the oppenent bets 1/4 of the pot and is all in i need 5 outs min to call the flop and 9 outs if the bet is on the turn.

    but this is for if your opponent is all in....what if he has more chips....?
  • syphilaidssyphilaids
    how many outs do you have? how many chips does he have? hwo many chips do you have? how big is your draw? what do you put him on? how late in the tourny or is it a cash game? whats your image?
  • UnknownUnknown
    syphilaids wrote: »
    how many outs do you have? how many chips does he have? hwo many chips do you have? how big is your draw? what do you put him on? how late in the tourny or is it a cash game? whats your image?

    i have x amount of chips, he has y amount i have k amount of outs. my draw is defined by k. what i put him on is defined by k. how will i put these numbers together?

    specifically how does him having more chips than being all in change my calculation that was so automatic when his bet was all his chips.
  • 800OVER800OVER
    toronto416 wrote: »
    I wouldn't want to read anything written by Phil Gordon.... lol.

    some people can play well but couldn't teach you a thing.....Phil writes a pretty good poker book actually though he might not be taking his own advice at the table.
  • MiloMilo
    800OVER wrote: »
    some people can play well but couldn't teach you a thing.....Phil writes a pretty good poker book actually though he might not be taking his own advice at the table.


    See bolded . . . I do not think there is any doubt.
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