Gus Hansen VS Howard Lederer

Dennis187

:eek:

Thought that title would get your attention, so here is the question. What style do you all like better?

Gus Hansen:
- Tremendous player that has the ability to play a TON of hands because his flop play is excellent. He always knows where he is at in the hand. He could have 3-4 offsuite and raise and get a caller and the flop be, 3-7-8 rainbow. He will bet it out? How? Why? I am not sure but sometimes it seems that his style works. He is far from conservative and is really a loose player. He reminds me of a Stu Ungar (I know how he plays cause I have a copy of the 1997 WSOP where he won the world championship, yes I bought the VHS online), or some of the other more famous loose players that are out there. Do you like his style of play?

OR

Howard Lederer
- The Dan Harrington type. You know this style very well. The style that all the poker books out there tell you to play. Wait for the premium starting hands and play those through and through. Be patient, and folding is power. You all should know this style very well. I believe this style works wonder for ring cash games, (especially those on Party Poker)... but how good is this style for tournaments? Seems to me that this is a solid style of play but sometimes not the best?

So the question here is this... do you prefer one style over the other? Which style do you find more profitable? Maybe a combination of both, I dont know.. you all tell me... cant wait to hear some of the opinions.

Cya

Dennis187

Cmon someone has to have an opinion on this... cmon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

JuiceMan

I agree that The tight style is good for online ring games but tournaments are much different. I like Gus Hansen's style because he plays a lot of hands and that always keeps his opponents guessing. Its hard fot them to know if they are ahead unless they have the nuts against him. and his record alone speaks for itself.

SocietyRed

I watched Hansen a few times on WPT events and he is a fascinating poker player. It takes a lot of $%&* to play some hands that he plays. He's got a rep now of being a maniac somewhat, makes it a lot easier to trap with a good hand. I just watched him play last weeked on CITY TV's WPT coverage. Amazing player.
I like Lederer too. Cant really say the same about his sister though. Something about her I dont like.


Red

DJP

Gotta go with Howard, even though I sometimes play like Gus. lol

Dennis187

I personally think that Gus Hansen is better suited for NL tournaments and or cash games. I think he could really kill some of those.

For limit cash games, I think Lederer would take the cake there. His style would be by far better suited for such.

Just my 2 cents tho...

Tilter

This is from barry greensteins site:
http://www.barrygreenstein.com/ghansen.htm
Gus Hansen
Aggressiveness:6
Looseness: 8
Short-handed: 7
Limit: 6
No-limit: 7
Tournaments: 8
Side games: 6
Steam control: 5
Against weak players: 8
Against strong players: 6

http://www.barrygreenstein.com/hlederer.htm
Aggressiveness: 7
Looseness: 5
Short-handed: 7
Limit: 8
No-limit: 8
Tournaments: 8
Side games: 6
Steam control: 7
Against weak players: 8
Against strong players: 6

twosnaces

I like Lederer's style for limit ring games but I agree that you need to open up more in tournament play. I'm not sure if I could play the same as Gus but you definitely need to play the cards he plays every once in a while or you'll just get walked over in tournaments.

Not sure which would be a more profitable style since I'm still working on finding my own style. I would think a combination of the two styles would work real well... maybe start playing tight and loosen up when your table image has you pegged as tight.

88Fingers

IF you had asked me when I started seriously playing poker again, I would have been 100% behind Howard. He is calm, cool, calculated. He makes decisions based on odds, data, etc. He is a SOLID player and is someone I still look up to.

As I progress down the road towards poker greatness (right now I have just enough road behind me to see the start off in the distance, but looking forward have no idea how long the journey is actually gonna take) I have come to appreciate more the Gus Hansen style. He watches, fakes, bluffs and messes with your head so you don't know whether he is holding rockets or rags.

I as well as twosnaces am working on my own style. It is definately 1 part Gus, 1 part Howard, a lot of other players have added some parts too. Someday I hope to be good enough for people to analyze my play and ask 'what makes him so good'. Until then.....

Jay

I gotta go with Gus.

I was once a very tight player (like Howard) when I first started playing and it's definitely profitable, but since then I've turned into a much looser, "balls out" player and have found it just as profitable (maybe a bit more). Gus' style is a lot more fun, as opposed to Howard's boring style which is also prone to taking some really bad beats.

Both of them are in my top 5, and I respect both a great deal.

garro

Jay wrote:

I gotta go with Gus.

I was once a very tight player (like Howard) when I first started playing and it's definitely profitable, but since then I've turned into a much looser, "balls out" player and have found it just as profitable (maybe a bit more). Gus' style is a lot more fun, as opposed to Howard's boring style which is also prone to taking some really bad beats.

I personally like Howard's Style more (at least it is better for the way I play). If you want to play like Gus you have to be a great Post Flop player (which Gus is, he's fricking amazing at post flop play). I have seen him call down hands (on TV anyhow) with middle pair because he knew that the board missed the other player completely. One day I hope my poker ability advances to the point where I could play like Gus should I wish (i.e. for those times you need to change gears), for now I will stick with Howards Style.

Dave Scharf

I do not think that the original description of either player is correct.

In particular, I do not believe that Lederer is a "book player." Far from it. Comparing the two, I will give Lederer far more gears. Hanson does well because, although it takes a lot of guts to play like he does, it takes even more cojones to deploy an appropriatte counter strategy and few players do. I think Hanson is easier to put in a box than Lederer who is much more deceptive.

In my book there is a very short list of "A" players: Lederer, Negreanu, Brunson, Hellmuth, and Seidel come to mind.

There is a long list of "B" players: Hanson, Duke, Raymer, Nguyen, Phillips, and on and on.

Any of the "B" players would be considered "world class." There aren't many who are "universe class."

Lederer's 2003 WSOP trip reprots are indispensible reading.

garro

Dave Scharf wrote:

In my book there is a very short list of "A" players: Lederer, Negreanu, Brunson, Hellmuth, and Seidel come to mind.

I find it interesting that Hellmuth is in that list, however I of course have only every seen his TV image persona (which I assume is just that). Also where would you classify Phil Ivey (B verging on A). I personally find him to be a very interesting player to watch.

Dave Scharf

I don't know enough about Ivey. He certainly may deserve "A" list.

I don't know a lot about Hellmuth either, but I know people who do know and they all applaud his skill. And, it's hard to fault his results.

Chugs

Dave where i can i get Lederer's 2003 trip report for the WSOP?

wader

http://www.howardlederer.com/trip4.html

stpboy

Dave Scharf wrote:

Lederer's 2003 WSOP trip reprots are indispensible reading.

Once again, I'm glad I took your advice. This was awesome! I particularily like the part where Howard and Phil talk about the hand after the fact and what Phil has to say to Howard about getting chips.

By Howard Lederer on Day 4 of his 2003 WSOP trip report.

"A little while later, I saw this hand. Ivey opened in early position and Deeb called in the BB. The flop came K99 and Deeb checked. Ivey bet about 30,000 and Deeb called. On the turn the board came (K99) 4 and Deeb checked. Ivey bet about 50,000 and Deeb called. The river came (K99) 4 7. Deeb checked again, and Ivey moved in for about 150,000 more. Deeb went deep into the tank. I have played quite a bit with Phil this year, and I felt pretty sure he was bluffing. After about two minutes, Freddy folded. I flashed Phil a look like I knew he just got away with murder. The sheepish grin he returned to me confirmed my suspicions. What a great play by Phil there. Later, on the break, I warned him to not try any of that stuff with me. He just laughed and said, "You get your chips your way, and I'll get my chips my way." No truer words have ever been spoken about NLHE. You have to find your own style and make it work for you. Trying to blindly copy what other good players do is a sure recipe for disaster."

stp

Dave Scharf

I prefer to get my chips by getting it all in with the worst of it and then sucking out. That's how you win really big pots.

Lederer's trip reports were immensely useful to me in preparing for the 2004 WSOP.

ScottyZ

Dave Scharf wrote:

I prefer to get my chips by getting it all in with the worst of it and then sucking out. That's how you win really big pots.

I'm going to choose to not "blindly copy" what this good player does.

Great read, and I also found this link to the same thing

http://www.gutshot.co.uk/Roadtrips/howardledererwsop.htm

because I found the font hard to read at the other URL.

ScottyZ