77 spot deep in the 33k yesterday

Richard~

Posted this on pokerpwnage as well but I'd like as much input as possible. Went deep in the 33k on tilt a third day in a row, how would you intend to play this with 17 BB's from hijack+1?

Full Tilt Poker Game #21095875070: $33,000 KO Guarantee (162271001), Table 61 - 1000/2000 Ante 250 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:01:15 ET - 2010/05/24
Seat 1: justinbernal (157,384)
Seat 2: Power Bottom (16,542)
Seat 3: theRILES (64,645)
Seat 4: Sgt Iron Balls (101,780)
Seat 5: llRichardll (34,322)
Seat 6: zentex (90,250)
Seat 7: hamdula (114,054)
Seat 8: cameleon14 (43,234)
Seat 9: WreckinBall (110,044)
justinbernal antes 250
Power Bottom antes 250
theRILES antes 250
Sgt Iron Balls antes 250
llRichardll antes 250
zentex antes 250
hamdula antes 250
cameleon14 antes 250
WreckinBall antes 250
WreckinBall posts the small blind of 1,000
justinbernal posts the big blind of 2,000
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to llRichardll [:7h :7c]
Power Bottom folds
theRILES folds
Sgt Iron Balls folds
llRichardll ???

Wetts1012

Well, Raise folding seems pretty bad.

Open shoving is probably borderline unexploitable, so likely best option.

Folding is OK but tight.

I put the calling pressure back on villains here and open ship.

Therefore: shove > fold >>>>>>>>>>> raise folding.

Unknown

ive been sporting a small ball style (not profitabley yet) so ill likely min raise 2x or 2.5 times, and look for my set. its really hard to continuation bet any flop other than just going all in though. I might even limp and expect to play multi hand or against the bb which is okay (and fold to a raise as wetts smacks his forehead). people bput you on a monster like that a lot of time but maybe not in the medium stakes games. other than that i don't think its too tight of a fold at all, its tight though but not too tight. it seems like you should shove though since your getting down towards 10bb but since your not there i think your so short you could fold.

Richard~

They pretty much said shove on pokerpwnage as well. At the time I was thinking that raise folding would be really bad with my stacksize so I decided to play my hand for my stack. I didn't even consider a small open here to be a way to induce 3bets but I suppose that's really what opening the pot does.

Next time I'm in this spot I'll just shove now that I've analysed it but this time I raised with the intention of getting it in against a 3bet but that put me in a pretty annoying spot

Full Tilt Poker Game #21095875070: $33,000 KO Guarantee (162271001), Table 61 - 1000/2000 Ante 250 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:01:15 ET - 2010/05/24
Seat 1: justinbernal (157,384)
Seat 2: Power Bottom (16,542)
Seat 3: theRILES (64,645)
Seat 4: Sgt Iron Balls (101,780)
Seat 5: llRichardll (34,322)
Seat 6: zentex (90,250)
Seat 7: hamdula (114,054)
Seat 8: cameleon14 (43,234)
Seat 9: WreckinBall (110,044)
justinbernal antes 250
Power Bottom antes 250
theRILES antes 250
Sgt Iron Balls antes 250
llRichardll antes 250
zentex antes 250
hamdula antes 250
cameleon14 antes 250
WreckinBall antes 250
WreckinBall posts the small blind of 1,000
justinbernal posts the big blind of 2,000
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to llRichardll [:7h :7c]
Power Bottom folds
theRILES folds
Sgt Iron Balls folds
llRichardll raises to 5,000
zentex raises to 16,000
hamdula folds
cameleon14 folds
WreckinBall folds
justinbernal folds
llRichardll ???


What about this spot, should I stick to my original plan to get it in or should I let him force me to raise fold? A 3bet from the hijack shows pretty great strength imo

Wetts1012

LOL at his 3bet size. He might as well play his QQ-AA faceup.

His sizing screams that he has you crushed. AQ-AK ships all the gold pretty much, but raise folding is just terrible here, so I think you stick it in and sigh.

actyper

Wetts1012 wrote: »

Therefore: shove > fold >>>>>>>>>>> raise folding.

Where would you place raise calling in here?

Same hand but you have 20-25bbs?

Also with 20-25 bbs should you std raise and bb ships, whats your play read aside?

Had a similar situation deepish in the 300k that i'm wondering about.

Wetts1012

Raise calling is between shoving and folding imo (I assume you mean raise calling a shove, and not half your stack).

I can more comfortably RF with 25BB (I still dont like it)

The hand where the BB shoves is stack dependent (villains stack), but I think if he has you covered you can comfortably fold, assuming you 2.5-3x it from the HJ and BB ships. I mean theres not much air in his shoving range, Im guessing we have <50% equity assuming it is 66+, AJ+ (I'll stove this later).

His range is much wider if you have 14-18BB likely some A10, KQ, etc.

Another variation on this type of hand is here:

http://www.pokerforum.ca/f53/77-spot-21515/

Richard~

Wetts1012 wrote: »

LOL at his 3bet size. He might as well play his QQ-AA faceup.

His sizing screams that he has you crushed. AQ-AK ships all the gold pretty much, but raise folding is just terrible here, so I think you stick it in and sigh.

Done and done =/


Full Tilt Poker Game #21095875070: $33,000 KO Guarantee (162271001), Table 61 - 1000/2000 Ante 250 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:01:15 ET - 2010/05/24
Seat 1: justinbernal (157,384)
Seat 2: Power Bottom (16,542)
Seat 3: theRILES (64,645)
Seat 4: Sgt Iron Balls (101,780)
Seat 5: llRichardll (34,322)
Seat 6: zentex (90,250)
Seat 7: hamdula (114,054)
Seat 8: cameleon14 (43,234)
Seat 9: WreckinBall (110,044)
justinbernal antes 250
Power Bottom antes 250
theRILES antes 250
Sgt Iron Balls antes 250
llRichardll antes 250
zentex antes 250
hamdula antes 250
cameleon14 antes 250
WreckinBall antes 250
WreckinBall posts the small blind of 1,000
justinbernal posts the big blind of 2,000
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to llRichardll
Power Bottom folds
theRILES folds
Sgt Iron Balls folds
llRichardll raises to 5,000
zentex raises to 16,000
hamdula folds
cameleon14 has 15 seconds left to act
cameleon14 has timed out
cameleon14 folds
cameleon14 is sitting out
WreckinBall folds
justinbernal folds
cameleon14 has returned
llRichardll raises to 34,072, and is all in
zentex calls 18,072
llRichardll shows
zentex shows
*** FLOP ***
*** TURN ***
*** RIVER ***
llRichardll shows two pair, Eights and Sevens
zentex shows two pair, Aces and Eights
zentex wins the pot (73,394) with two pair, Aces and Eights
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 73,394 | Rake 0
Board:
Seat 1: justinbernal (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Power Bottom folded before the Flop
Seat 3: theRILES folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Sgt Iron Balls folded before the Flop
Seat 5: llRichardll showed and lost with two pair, Eights and Sevens
Seat 6: zentex showed and won (73,394) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 7: hamdula folded before the Flop
Seat 8: cameleon14 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: WreckinBall (small blind) folded before the Flop

I still feel it might be possible to 3bet fold under these circumstances, this might not be a plus EV call imo

Wetts1012

Richard~ wrote: »

I still feel it might be possible to 3bet fold under these circumstances, this might not be a plus EV call imo

Yea given his sizing, assuming hes semi competent his range is basically QQ+, maybe AK, so calling is likely not very good.

If he ships on you I think the range is wider so a call is more viable.

The more I think about this hand the more I really like the open ship.

actyper

Wetts1012 wrote: »

Raise calling is between shoving and folding imo (I assume you mean raise calling a shove, and not half your stack).

I can more comfortably RF with 25BB (I still dont like it)

The hand where the BB shoves is stack dependent (villains stack), but I think if he has you covered you can comfortably fold, assuming you 2.5-3x it from the HJ and BB ships. I mean theres not much air in his shoving range, Im guessing we have <50% equity assuming it is 66+, AJ+ (I'll stove this later).

His range is much wider if you have 14-18BB likely some A10, KQ, etc.

Another variation on this type of hand is here:

http://www.pokerforum.ca/f53/77-spot-21515/

In my situation I had 21bbs, my std raise w/ antes is 2.2-2.45x. I raised with 88 in the hj, and was reshipped by a 30bb BB. I called and raced with AK obv. Hate plays which sound std but looking but you question if std is right?