Has anyone ever folded AA

Goms27

Hey Dave and all - just wondering if anyone has ever folded AA. Below was my hand in Stars tourney yesterday. The table I was at was quite tight table with 3 or 4 people who seemed to be fairly easy pickings. In saying that should I have put my tourney life on the line with AA when we have had two people already go all in? Is there any circumstance where you would fold AA pre-flop?

Thanks,

Cory

PS - GreekMaster really pissed me of with this one - would any of you make that call?


Transcript for game #979851934 requested by Goms27()
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #979851934: Tournament #4046476, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2004/12/20 - 15:13:56 (ET)
Table '4046476 49' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: eballs (1855 in chips)
Seat 2: Mimi55 (1295 in chips)
Seat 3: Goms27 (1810 in chips)
Seat 4: GREEKMASTER (7300 in chips)
Seat 5: winemo (2155 in chips)
Seat 6: rhus (4450 in chips)
Seat 7: lucky121 (1340 in chips)
Seat 8: tukmol2004 (1775 in chips)
eballs: posts small blind 25
Mimi55: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Goms27 [Ah Ad]
Goms27: raises 250 to 300
GREEKMASTER: calls 300
winemo: folds
rhus: folds
lucky121: raises 1040 to 1340 and is all-in
tukmol2004: calls 1340
eballs: folds
Mimi55: folds
Goms27: raises 470 to 1810 and is all-in
GREEKMASTER: calls 1510
sierraphan is connected
tukmol2004: calls 435 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [9d 6s 8d]
*** TURN *** [9d 6s 8d] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [9d 6s 8d 6d] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Goms27: shows [Ah Ad] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
GREEKMASTER: shows [6h 7h] (three of a kind, Sixes)
GREEKMASTER collected 70 from side pot-2
tukmol2004: shows [Qs Qc] (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
GREEKMASTER collected 1305 from side pot-1
lucky121: shows [3c 3s] (two pair, Sixes and Threes)
GREEKMASTER collected 5435 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6810 Main pot 5435. Side pot-1 1305. Side pot-2 70. | Rake 0
Board [9d 6s 8d 6d Jc]
Seat 1: eballs (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Mimi55 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Goms27 showed [Ah Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 4: GREEKMASTER showed [6h 7h] and won (6810) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 5: winemo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: rhus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: lucky121 showed [3c 3s] and lost with two pair, Sixes and Threes
Seat 8: tukmol2004 (button) showed [Qs Qc] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sixes

BBC Z

In saying that should I have put my tourney life on the line with AA when we have had two people already go all in?

I'd fold it every time... but thats because I dont like winning. Ever. I mean, why would you want a monster hand played against as many people as possible? You can only land up tripling/quadrupling up like 70% of the time. Who wants that?

djw

In this situation you describe I wouldn't drop the AA, I would have played it somewhat as you did. You are dominating a range of hands that people are willing to go in with (eg: AKs, AKo, AQs), and you are a 4 to 1 favorite vs any other pocket pair. I do not like greekmaster's play at all, nor lucky121's play going all-in vs an early position raiser with a small pocket pair.

As for your second question, I've never been in a situation that warranted dropping AA pre-flop. You would have to be in a fairly unique situation to drop it, but these situations do exist. You can find examples of it on the net/in book's/on this forum.

Pigga

Yes, honestly i would consider folding it, but situation varies........if im close to the money and 6 people go all in infront of me (rare situation) and its life/death for me if i go all in, i'd consider folding them (not liking it) but i might, just because with that many peopl in, your aces will more than likely be cracked unless you can hit a boat or quads......

but situation definately changes everything

in this situation the one play was a moron, and got lucky...... i see nothing wrong IMO w/ the calling of 300, but to flat call 1500 and 2 all ins after that, im sorry but 67h isnt the best hand......tough break

sarcasm wasnt needed.......but there are times preflop that you can fold AA but its few and far between.....the above mentioned time if like more than 4 people are all in before it even gets to me i'd consider it, but still i'd have a hard time folding........only if trying to squeek into the money i think i'd do it, otherwise im pushing w/ AA always

DJP

I wonder if you'd gone all-in "first", how they then would have played? I say, guy 1 thinks about it and finally folds his 3's, and then guy 2 decides the same. I think he was only along for the ride for pot odds.

The best line I saw recently in a chat window explains it. lol It was during a retard/rebuy period on stars. After a frenzy of rebuys by 1 or 2 others he pipes up and says, "You don't have to be good to make a deposit here." Most of us laughed.

I would have played them too. Tough one.

BurnCard

Generally I'm not going to fold it. But if I'd much rather avoid races and try to outplay people post-flop. AA..doubt it..unless we're talking 5 people all in on the bubble or something...

Chugs

I play the pokerstars turbo and regular satellites to their sunday $215 tournies.

In those tournaments i folded aces countless times near the money. Even at an 80% favourite i have an even higher % chance of making the money, by taking no action and simply allowing the blinds to eat at me, and have me squeek in.

Now that's a bit of a different situation, becuase the payoff considerations come into play.

Most of the time you quadruple up but sometimes you lose to a 67s or 45o or some other crazy hand

djw

Chugs wrote:

I play the pokerstars turbo and regular satellites to their sunday $215 tournies.

In those tournaments i folded aces countless times near the money. Even at an 80% favourite i have an even higher % chance of making the money, by taking no action and simply allowing the blinds to eat at me, and have me squeek in.

Since you are such a favorite, wouldn't it help your overall success by playing those aces? Since you will win more often than not, you would be going into the money with a far better chip position, allowing you to move up further in the money? Quality vs Quantity?

Most of the time you quadruple up but sometimes you lose to a 67s or 45o or some other crazy hand

Obviously it really depends on your situation, but I would think the times that you actually make the right play by folding AA pre-flop would be pretty rare.

pkrfce9

Chugs wrote:

In those tournaments i folded aces countless times near the money. Even at an 80% favourite i have an even higher % chance of making the money, by taking no action and simply allowing the blinds to eat at me, and have me squeek in.

That's an interesting case. Say 5 get seats and there are 6 players left. If 2 or 3 are all-in, you are better off to sit tight and catch the final spot.

At a final table where the prize money increases drastically from 4th to 2nd place, it also makes sense if you are short stacked and 3 of the 4 remaining players have gone all-in. Just sit back and you are guaranteed 2nd usually.

If you aren't close to the money yet and you have a chance to get your chips in, go for it! Even if you are close to the bubble, I'd much rather get 5x my entry fee than just get my money back. This is a great chance to do that, so push those chips in.

I think you played it correctly. The other guy was just a lucky idiot.

Now, how you play AA after the flop if you haven't gone all-in - that's the subject of another thread!

Monteroy

I came close one time to folding AA pre flop. Was a Stars 30 sit and go and I had about 6000 chips, the chip leader had 6500 chips and 2 other players had less then 500 chips each.

I raised 200 to 600 and chip leader shoved. I ended up calling and his KK beat me so I finished 4th out of the money. I did a post about it a few months ago and I think the call was correct though I also think a fold with that very unusual chip situation in my case is not the worst thing in the world to do either.

In the original example I don't see why anyone would fold AA. You will be the favorite in the hand, even if you have only a 50-60% chance of winning and you will triple+ up if you win. That opportunity rarely presents itself in a tournament.

Pigga

its a bit different if your playing a satellite in which X amount of ppl get seats or if its a tournament w/ varied payouts depending on finish


IMO, in a satellite in which X amount of seat are all worth same value, yes i'd consider folding aces to squeek into the money or whathave you, especially if its like 2-3 people all in, 6 remaining w/ 5 seats b/c more than likely one of the shortstacks with bust and you will profit with winning a seat.....


however, if this is a tournament where its near the bubble and has varied payouts depending on finish.....It always depends on the situation.....my instinct is saying i'd probably push all in, each time in this case b/c whatever the buy-in of the tourney is, i dont want to make basically my money back, i want to win the tourney, i dont play these tourneys to just make my entry and little back...its just not worth the effort i play to win , the only thing that would change this is that rare, unique, one scenario..........where for some reason u get 5-6 all ins, in front of you.........where you could easily be up against 2-3 other pocket pairs, some paint cards, and just random hands in general in which your aces will hand to dodge almost every card in the deck to avoid running into sets,crappy 2 pair, straights and flushes.....when theres that much action in the hand, i wouldnt expect my hand to hold up by the river, and if it did, it would be a miracle i beleive....


my 2 cents tho,
take it for what you will


Pigga

literation

Yeah I posted this at another site when it was much much warmer than this week...


"Throwing away AA or KK before the flop can be profitable, especially at the final table.

As an example, consider this scenario:

There are five of you left and the payouts are:

1st $4,000 2nd $2,000 3rd $1,000 4th $500 5th $300

The chips are distributed as follows:

Beth $30,000 Jim $2,000 Neil $2,000 Dora $2,000 You $500

At least you made the final table and you're getting $300 in prize money. You get your hand and Dora raises to $2,000 all-in, Neil calls all-in, Jim calls all-in and Beth calls leaving her with $28,000 in chips. You look at your hand and you have AA! What do you do?

If you call and win the hand, you will have $2,500 in chips. If you lose the hand, you'll be busted out and receive $300. If you fold, you're guaranteed to move up the pay ladder no matter what happens after that. In the very unlikely event of a tie, two of the players with only $2,000 in chips will be eliminated and quite possibly, all three will lose to Beth. This means you move up two or even three places by not playing the hand.

If Beth wins the hand your payout goes from $300 to a guaranteed minimum of $2,000. If she does not win the hand, then she will have $28,000 in chips and the winner of the hand will have $6,000 in chips. Then this line of logic starts all over again. If you can stay out of the way while she knocks off the other player, you then get second place for sure.

This example is extreme and unlikely but I made it that way to illustrate the point. You'll often be in a spot where you'll tell yourself, ' I'm not going to play this (usually playable) great hand because all I need to do is sit back and wait for one player to bust out another player,' or 'I don't need to play this hand knowing that I could bust someone out because I can already see that another player is going to do that for me.'

The Big Book of Poker by Ken Warren