Live- Shove, do you call here?

SuitedPair

72 players, down to about 40, $40 NLHE with $20 rebuy for 3 levels. Rebuy period is over. 30 minute levels, ramping up to 20 minute levels long after this point.
blinds are 400/800

UTG +2 dealt AJ - suited - Raise to 2K (10K left)
Player immediately left calls - has 4K back.
Folds to Button
Button Calls - has everyone covered
SB folds
BB shoves 10K total so there is 16400 in the pot, I have 10K back leaving me with 2K after the call.

BB is total jackass. Like Phil Helmuth crossed with Tony G non-stop but without the skills and in no way amusing. Seems to be a bit mentally unstable. Like he was dropped on his head a few times and has no idea of how much anger he is generating amongst the poor bastards that had to sit with him since the start.. Berating the women at the table for playing like women.....(go get em KS and Shar) calling anyone that calls him a donkey no matter how good the hand....Just moved to the table so I don't know how he has been playing but he was beaten by a worse starting hand the hand before and seemed to be steaming. A woman had just doubled through him! for shame.....(his opinion not mine. I was quite fine losing to Shar 2 weeks ago as she crushed me with skills heads up) He stood up and backed off from the table as he shoved. This seems to me a sign he is uncomfortable with the shove but he is a nutbar so it could mean anything.

Button stood up and got his smokes out and motioned that he was going to muck so I only have BB and short stack behind me to act.

I figure I'm ahead of or racing a large portion of the BB's range. Getting 2/1 pot odds to call. I have just over 12BB but will have less than that as this is the last hand at this level.

Do you call this down or muck it hoping for a better spot? Do I fear the AQ, AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ monsters under the bed or get it in there? Is my assumption about range founded since I don't know how tight he really is yet?

Anyone want more info about tourney structure?

By the end I knew all the cards in play so I'll spill the beans but I want to see how everyone else sees it.

Thanks guys and gals

compuease

Well as played if your read is he could be doing this with anything of course I call, however with AJ in mid-early pos I'm likely folding this before my opening raise.... Probably a lot of short stacks after me that are likely to shove like this then I have the tough decision like you do now. Preflop I either fold or shove depending on my thoughts on table dynamics.

trigs

i just hate AJ. arguably one the worst "good" hands out there. tough decision for sure. if you really trust your read, then go for it (even though you just came to the table). i think you can find a fold here though.

Milo

Standard response (for me):

Looks at chips, looks at BB, "See you in Hell . . . " SHOVE.

Immediate left has KK, right?

jdAA88

Get it in!

Richard~

Standing up and walking around is to me a sign of great strength but against the type you described I'm still tempted to get it in, your equity against his range seems too good to get away here unless you're sure he's strong

ReefAquarium

SuitedPair wrote: »

72 players, down to about 40, $40 NLHE with $20 rebuy for 3 levels. Rebuy period is over. 30 minute levels, ramping up to 20 minute levels long after this point.
blinds are 400/800

UTG +2 dealt AJ - suited - Raise to 2K (10K left)
Player immediately left calls - has 4K back.
Folds to Button
Button Calls - has everyone covered
SB folds
BB shoves 10K total so there is 16400 in the pot, I have 10K back leaving me with 2K after the call.

BB is total jackass. Like Phil Helmuth crossed with Tony G non-stop but without the skills and in no way amusing. Seems to be a bit mentally unstable. Like he was dropped on his head a few times and has no idea of how much anger he is generating amongst the poor bastards that had to sit with him since the start.. Berating the women at the table for playing like women.....(go get em KS and Shar) calling anyone that calls him a donkey no matter how good the hand....Just moved to the table so I don't know how he has been playing but he was beaten by a worse starting hand the hand before and seemed to be steaming. A woman had just doubled through him! for shame.....(his opinion not mine. I was quite fine losing to Shar 2 weeks ago as she crushed me with skills heads up) He stood up and backed off from the table as he shoved. This seems to me a sign he is uncomfortable with the shove but he is a nutbar so it could mean anything.

Button stood up and got his smokes out and motioned that he was going to muck so I only have BB and short stack behind me to act.

I figure I'm ahead of or racing a large portion of the BB's range. Getting 2/1 pot odds to call. I have just over 12BB but will have less than that as this is the last hand at this level.

Do you call this down or muck it hoping for a better spot? Do I fear the AQ, AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ monsters under the bed or get it in there? Is my assumption about range founded since I don't know how tight he really is yet?

Anyone want more info about tourney structure?

By the end I knew all the cards in play so I'll spill the beans but I want to see how everyone else sees it.

Thanks guys and gals

I'd neither bet or fold to start off with....

He's a guy who likes to mouth off...

So...

I'd start by cross examining him... do it a way that seem amusing to the other players at the table ... get him talking ... He'll tell you what he has based on your cross examination... If he clams up... lob some balls over the plate that give him the opportunity to, "Show how smart he is!!!"

He's making disparaging remarks about women so he's probably suffering from testosterone poisoning.... use that to your advantage...


The guy on the immediate left of you is coming along for 4K more with any two cards... He's put in 1/3 of his stack and will get 4:26 odds to call. So he can call with any two vs AA... So you're getting better odds to beat loudmouth.

Whatever you do, don't sit there silently!!

Engage him in "conversation"!!!!!

ottawaplayer

I agree with Compu that I would be shoving or folding preflop in this position and with that stack size. However, once in this position and with your read on the player I think that you have to shove.

With the blinds going up next hand, within the next 4 hands you are going to be paying the increased SB and BB with only 10k left, so do you feel like waiting for a better hand to push all-in? You will be getting better than 2-1 once the player to your left calls.

Richard~

You shoving 15 BB's with AJs UTG+1? That seems a bit marginal in a juicy live tournament?

SuitedPair

Great discussion above all. Thank you. so much more texture to think about than I was originally mulling over. this is exactly what I was looking for.


I usually hate AJ as well. But it was soooooted. I raised the marginal hand early as the 3 hands I did see at this table there were no 3 bets and I had the left over experience from my first table which was the same. yes I should have ignored this as it was a new table, new players and 3 hands does not a statistically reliable sample make. Aggression was low, calling was king, so I figured there would be 3 or 4 callers and I could re-evaluate on the flop.

When BB got up he really seemed like he was resigned to getting called and beat so it didn't look at all like the show of strength that type of move can mean.

Well I called. I thought about it, let the guy rant a bit and called.

He had 88 so it was a race.

Guy behind calls as well with no hesitation of course which was slightly concerning but he had pocket 6's

Flop was ridiculous......A9A and BB goes ape-shit which was worth the call even if he was to spike an 8 on T/R. He didn't, the turn and river were bricks as the six didn't spike either so I had a decent stack going into the next level. Made it down to final 15 so six away from final table which had all the cash in it so it was a little disappointing.

trigs

nh

syphilaids

my 2 cents:

Typical of live tournaments is loose-passive play. Lots of players just want to see the flop. You have to pwn this aspect. With your stack you can never fold AJs imo, so I raise and call/shove.

Knowing this, you really have to charge all those loose callers. I don't like shoving here cause you'll usually only get called by better hands. But your raise is too weak. After the caller behind you, the big stack on the button was getting HUGE odds to call, and can do so with almost any suited connector/ low pp, etc.

In this spot in early position I like to make a bigger than usual raise, like 3500. It shows that you're going all the way with it, and it'll be a much harder bet to call by all those donks that just want to see a flop.

ottawaplayer

Richard~ wrote: »

You shoving 15 BB's with AJs UTG+1? That seems a bit marginal in a juicy live tournament?

I don't have a read or data on the rest of the players at the table, but given that the blinds are going up next hand and I am about to pay them, I just might. I am borderline committed with any strong raise anyways, but I am probably behind if I do get a caller.

Wanita1

Often in early position there are hands that I would like to raise with but don't. Depending on the table and amount of chips I will often limp or fold. With the hand that was described, for me, if I had a bit of information on the players at the table I would have limped knowing I would call a raise up to 3-4 times the big blind or I would have shoved from the start. I know there are many players who believe that raise or fold is the way but I have a few reasons as to why I like to limp in. First off to to disguise my hand. Second with 15 BB left, if I raise and get re-raised I would either have to shove or fold then. By not raising myself I can afford to call the player that does raise avoiding a 3 bet. Then I at least get to see the flop cheaply. ( (hopefully). By not raising myself, if there is a mega raise or a re-raise, I can then fold if I choose and have enough chips to wait for a better position.

I found that with the blinds and antes being high that one can go from having as little as a few big blinds left to a healthy stack in just one good hand. At a final table once I went from chip leader down to 1 BB left and ended up finishing 1st anyway. I just got a couple of decent hands in a row and got lucky. I have seen other players as well make amazing comebacks with a few BB's left.