Players that never raise preflop
I have been having significant difficulty with this type of opponent for sometime now.
Early on in a live tournament, I'm in the small with pocket 10's. Blinds 50/100 and my chip count is about 2500 (which is average).
Two early position limpers and the button limps in. I raise another 350 to go. Everyone folds except the button who re-raises me another 500 on top.
I have a very hard time putting him on a hand and think he is thinking that i'm just stealing the pot, which I would do (but he likely doesnt know that). I have a hard time believing he has anything that beats me AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ...even AJ and AQ I think he folds with my next move. I push all in claiming that "I have a hard time believing you would limp in with Aces or Kings with two limpers in front of you and two behind you".
He flips over his Kings and I go home crying like a little baby. So, I don't think I played this hand particularily well BUT the flop was all rags and I would have had a hard time getting away from it.....
How many times have I said, or thought, "you're suppose to raise with KK (AK, AA)" or whatever...
I can understand in situations where you only have one or two possible callers (everyone folds to you in the small or on the button and you have KK) but in this situation, I have a hard time with it..
Anyway, I guess my question is how do you read a player that's table action gives nothing away preflop? Anyone else have this weakness in their game..?
stp
Early on in a live tournament, I'm in the small with pocket 10's. Blinds 50/100 and my chip count is about 2500 (which is average).
Two early position limpers and the button limps in. I raise another 350 to go. Everyone folds except the button who re-raises me another 500 on top.
I have a very hard time putting him on a hand and think he is thinking that i'm just stealing the pot, which I would do (but he likely doesnt know that). I have a hard time believing he has anything that beats me AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ...even AJ and AQ I think he folds with my next move. I push all in claiming that "I have a hard time believing you would limp in with Aces or Kings with two limpers in front of you and two behind you".
He flips over his Kings and I go home crying like a little baby. So, I don't think I played this hand particularily well BUT the flop was all rags and I would have had a hard time getting away from it.....
How many times have I said, or thought, "you're suppose to raise with KK (AK, AA)" or whatever...
I can understand in situations where you only have one or two possible callers (everyone folds to you in the small or on the button and you have KK) but in this situation, I have a hard time with it..
Anyway, I guess my question is how do you read a player that's table action gives nothing away preflop? Anyone else have this weakness in their game..?
stp
Comments
I have learned to beware of the Limper/re-raiser.
While I would not have folded, I would have called, and looked for a 10 on the flop. Then if it was high cards or a scarey flush/stright flop, be pre-pared to fold the hand, to any strong bet.
Tens are a great hand but I am guessing that you would not be pot committed calling his raise, and at the level you are at you still have a good number of chips to play with if you have to fold.
What I've found difficult is to assume that most players are bad players and they will make mistakes. No need to pay off those mistakes.
I've been caught in your situation and now I'm trying to really think about how good that player is. Forget about how dumb he must be to limp something like aa-jj. A re-steal is a move reserved only for some really good players. First they must realize your ability to lay down a stealing hand like AQ, and then they must have the balls to put their chips in the middle.
When you push all-in you must assume that they are at the All_aces or Dave Scwarf skill level, in that they will try and re-steal with a worse hand which they can lay down to an all-in. The reality of it, is that they are not that good. After all, the majority of poker players are losing poker players.
Cheers
Magi
I think there is an assumption that you should slow play aa or kk for value. With low calibre players - Which is what he tried to do.
Then when you went in and pushed out the limpers it was about beating you.
Was there any theatrics? How were the chips pushed in?
That's where your answer would lie.
Or could it be that aces just spiked on a naked ace, against pockets the hand before and he is in EP worried about a maniac, so he limped? Or it 'always happens to him' so he was worried?
-- I know I hate having aa, kk on the first hand of a tourney. Cause we have all had those cases where the idiot raises you with JJ or 76s and cracks your high pockets. Cause they figure wtf?
Or could it be he knew how aggressive you are and that the $150 raise would probably get you to go all in? (Outplaying the master? which I doubt considering it was just starting)
I'm pretty sure it was #1.... good old bad play, nothing beats bad play
So my answer is simple play straight up. And expect to be played straight forward a raise means a hand and a check means a draw. (or the Im weak so I raise or Im strong so I check you figure out who's who). Don't bet flush turns or str turns if they cant see past their top pair or second and third buttons.
Hope it helps, but Im sure you already figured out most of that
This is, I think, why he limped AA (even after two limpers). He wanted to win more that $350 chips with his AA -- a good idea if you are confident in your play post flop.
Pretty hard to put down your TT pre-flop. And, hard post flop too since you would have flopped an overpair to the flop.
If I have my "A" game I can probably get away to his pre-flop re-raise. After all, you are facing a slow play re-raiser who has position on you. Not a good spot to be. If I do not have my "A" game (which I rarely have online) I probably call and then fire on the flop and THEN fold to a big raise. I lose a lot of chips, but stay alive.
Thanks for the replys.
stp