Why play hi-limit (10/20 & up) on PS?
Let me pose this question to people who play high (by my standards) limit on pokerstars limit games of 10/20 and up.
Why would you play on pokerstars. It seems like in general the games are playing with players to the flop in the low twenties. You're generally contesting pots only heads up and not getting much of an overlay from other players into those pots.
Why wouldn't you play on sites like Party, Prima Network or Pacific, where it seems like you have games running with to the flop percentages from the low 40s upto the high 50s, and generally passive players. I know players to the flop alone doesn't give you a full indication of a table, but its a good starting point.
I've been having some marginal success at pacific playing limits from 5/10 upto on occasion 15/30. The swings can be big, but it seems to be worth it since usually when you flop a huge hand, you can get paid off by not just one but two or three other players almost the whole way.
So i guess what i'm asking is, if i were to continue playing at those limits ... why should i consider doing it at pokerstars, instead of other sites?
chugs
Why would you play on pokerstars. It seems like in general the games are playing with players to the flop in the low twenties. You're generally contesting pots only heads up and not getting much of an overlay from other players into those pots.
Why wouldn't you play on sites like Party, Prima Network or Pacific, where it seems like you have games running with to the flop percentages from the low 40s upto the high 50s, and generally passive players. I know players to the flop alone doesn't give you a full indication of a table, but its a good starting point.
I've been having some marginal success at pacific playing limits from 5/10 upto on occasion 15/30. The swings can be big, but it seems to be worth it since usually when you flop a huge hand, you can get paid off by not just one but two or three other players almost the whole way.
So i guess what i'm asking is, if i were to continue playing at those limits ... why should i consider doing it at pokerstars, instead of other sites?
chugs
Comments
As for other sites... IIRC, PokerRoom.com goes straight from 10/20 to 25/50. I can't play 10/20 (except shorthanded sometimes) and the 25/50 games there are not as good at present as they once were (I check in on them every week or so... waiting.... waiting....). PartyPoker's 30/60 waiting list is an absolute joke, and it's the reason I don't put money into that site. I actually emailed them about that, saying that I was looking to throw 5K from Stars to elsewhere for cash games, and they didn't get my business because of the 90 or so people waiting for their 2 tables of 30/60 every night. I received no response.
However, from what I understand, their 15/30 games can be good, too, so I may have to check that out at some point.
As for the 30/60 at Stars, it is tough. I find myself either folding the best hand or getting outdrawn too often to play those games regularly any more. The outdrawn factor is beyond my control... if someone wants to 3-bet my flush on the turn with trips and then make a boat on the river to beat me, more power to them. I welcome that kind of action. But take a hand like this, from the other night.
I'm MP with 88. EP calls, I call, LP raises, EP calls, I call.
Flop: TTJ. EP checks, I check, LP bets, EP calls, I call.
Turn: 3. EP checks, I check, LP bets, EP calls, and I fold. I figure I may be beating one of them, but not both. If the pot was heads-up I'd consider playing it through.
River: 6. Check, check. EP shows pocket 7's and wins.
I'm not looking for comments on my play. I just found that, in general, I was giving my opponents too much credit when they didn't have the goods, and not giving them enough credit when they did. That basically translates to this: the game is not good for me. If that hand I just mentioned was in a 15/30 game, I would have won it, because:
a) The LP player would not have bet the turn after two callers preflop and on the flop, and I would have called either player's river bet, or bet the river myself, or
b) The EP player would have folded the turn, leaving it heads-up, and I would have called it down.
The bottom line, after all that, is that the 15/30 games at Stars are generally good. We had a pot with 6 players seeing the flop for 2 bets each last night. They're not FANTASTIC games, but they're good. Not good enough for me to rule out playing elsewhere, but not quite bad enough for me to get off my ass and find somewhere better to play cash games. I've been thinking about Pacific for a month or so. Maybe this thread will actually motivate me to download the software.
Regards,
all_aces
Isn't the answer to this question, "because I make money"? Not me personally, because I don't regularly play 10/20, but I do regularly play 5/10 and lower where the flop percentage is in the low twenties.
I personally don't feel that a high flop seen percentage is the best game. I find the best games are when the players are all relatively equallly skilled -- not equal to my skills, just on par with each other. It's much easier to adopt a counter-strategy. And anyone that has an effective counter-strategy really sticks out, and you can easily manage around that.
The hardest games for me are the ones where there's a wide range of skills. It's much harder to have a good strategy. To this day, the hardest limit for me to play is the 2/4 at Paradise. It is so strange -- there are some really good players and really bad players, and like All_Aces on the 30/60, I'm usually caught in a situation with both good players and bad players in the pot, making it hard to identify the best course of action.
So, I like a nice consistent table -- doesn't matter if they are good or bad, just consistent. I like Stars and Party cash games and find a similar success rate at both, even though the flops seen percentage is way different.
Cheers
Magi
all_aces you'll clean up at pacific for sure ... but if this thread in anyway contributes to you downloading the software ... i want a cut. something like 1% of your winnings on pacific should still be good for a few grand a year, from those fish.
just one note about pacific: horrible interface, no downloadable hand histories, only can play one table, constantly getting disconnected (on a high speed connection) ... but a juicy game.