What would you do?
Here are 2 hands that I was invovled in during 2 seperate tournaments.
Hand #1
THe woodbridge $200 no limit holdem tournament
2nd level blinds are 50-100
I have 1200 left of my 2000 starting stack
There will be an add on for 4000 chips at a cost $200 at the end of this level
I get 77 UTG and limp in
2 mid pos limpers and the BB see the flop
flop is 3 4 5 rainbow
450 in the pot
BB bets 1000.....he has 2500 in chips
OK here is what I am thinking at this point
THe BB dosnt want a caller. The way he bet and the amount he bet tells me he just wants to win this pot on the flop. Ok so what does he have? I feel strongly that he has a pair of 5s and over bet the pot because he dosnt want to see any over cards hit the board. I am positive he didnt flop a set or a straight but there is a small chance that he has 2 pair. This is what I like about playing at a B & M, you can see the players and their reactions to the cards. I have a very strong read that this guy has 1 pair most likely a 5.
So what should I do?
If I call I might as well put all my chips in since I would only have 200 left.
What are the chances that one of the limpers behind me has a pair higher than 7s. I think that is unlikely since most players would raise preflop with pkt 10s or higher. THat leaves 88 or 99 as the only pairs higher than mine that might limp in preflop.
Should I move all in here or should I wait for a better spot to put my money in. With the add on coming up should I just try to hold on untill then?
What would you do?
I will post what happend with this hand later.
Hand # 2
pokerstars $10 rebuy tournament No limit holdem
Blinds are 400- 800 with a $50 ante
I have 22000 in chips which is an avg stack at this point
I am on the button with 10h 8h
everyone folds to the cut off who after a short pause limps in. I mention the pause because up untill this point this player has been acting on his hands at a normal pace but this time there was a noticable slowness to his action. Could have been a quick trip to the fridge or it could have been he needed a few seconds to decide how to play his hand.
Anyway I decide I want to see the flop with my hand, I also decide that I am going to make my usual 3x the BB raise. I have done this on the button several times in this tournament with a wide range of hands and have taken the blinds and any limpers preflop most of the time.
So I raise to 2400
SB folds
BB call
the cutoff now reraises to 6400
Cut off has 30000 in chips
so it a raise of 4000 to me
the pot has my 2400 the BB 2400 the SB 400 the ante 450 and the c utoff 6400 for a total of 12050
hmmmm
Here is the thing.....the cutoff has AA,,,I KNOW HE DOES FOR SURE!!
It all adds up the pause pre flop, the limp reraise from a late pos
He was afraid that if he raised preflop he would only steal the blinds...he wanted action and I fell for it.
Should I call or fold?
What would you do?
I will post the results of this hand later.
Hand #1
THe woodbridge $200 no limit holdem tournament
2nd level blinds are 50-100
I have 1200 left of my 2000 starting stack
There will be an add on for 4000 chips at a cost $200 at the end of this level
I get 77 UTG and limp in
2 mid pos limpers and the BB see the flop
flop is 3 4 5 rainbow
450 in the pot
BB bets 1000.....he has 2500 in chips
OK here is what I am thinking at this point
THe BB dosnt want a caller. The way he bet and the amount he bet tells me he just wants to win this pot on the flop. Ok so what does he have? I feel strongly that he has a pair of 5s and over bet the pot because he dosnt want to see any over cards hit the board. I am positive he didnt flop a set or a straight but there is a small chance that he has 2 pair. This is what I like about playing at a B & M, you can see the players and their reactions to the cards. I have a very strong read that this guy has 1 pair most likely a 5.
So what should I do?
If I call I might as well put all my chips in since I would only have 200 left.
What are the chances that one of the limpers behind me has a pair higher than 7s. I think that is unlikely since most players would raise preflop with pkt 10s or higher. THat leaves 88 or 99 as the only pairs higher than mine that might limp in preflop.
Should I move all in here or should I wait for a better spot to put my money in. With the add on coming up should I just try to hold on untill then?
What would you do?
I will post what happend with this hand later.
Hand # 2
pokerstars $10 rebuy tournament No limit holdem
Blinds are 400- 800 with a $50 ante
I have 22000 in chips which is an avg stack at this point
I am on the button with 10h 8h
everyone folds to the cut off who after a short pause limps in. I mention the pause because up untill this point this player has been acting on his hands at a normal pace but this time there was a noticable slowness to his action. Could have been a quick trip to the fridge or it could have been he needed a few seconds to decide how to play his hand.
Anyway I decide I want to see the flop with my hand, I also decide that I am going to make my usual 3x the BB raise. I have done this on the button several times in this tournament with a wide range of hands and have taken the blinds and any limpers preflop most of the time.
So I raise to 2400
SB folds
BB call
the cutoff now reraises to 6400
Cut off has 30000 in chips
so it a raise of 4000 to me
the pot has my 2400 the BB 2400 the SB 400 the ante 450 and the c utoff 6400 for a total of 12050
hmmmm
Here is the thing.....the cutoff has AA,,,I KNOW HE DOES FOR SURE!!
It all adds up the pause pre flop, the limp reraise from a late pos
He was afraid that if he raised preflop he would only steal the blinds...he wanted action and I fell for it.
Should I call or fold?
What would you do?
I will post the results of this hand later.
Comments
Both hands -- many times when you're right, it's still not a good idea.
Hand 1: I would tend to agree with your assessment of the BB. The problem is that he's not going to fold to your all-in, and you have someone behind you. This is probably my least favourite spot -- the monkey in the middle spot -- and I try to avoid it like the plague, unless I out chip the table. So, what's the risk of someone behind you with 88-99 or well, you know presto! Personally, I would like to push in, if I was there. However, after some somber second thought, I think I might prefer to wait for a better spot and fold. With your stack, some bozo behind you might call with two over cards and the BB is also there -- and that's not too wild of a thought during the rebuy period. And, pre-flop you're looking for the set to break someone or fold. So, best to stick with that plan.
Hand 2: Again, you're in the "monkey in the middle" position. You have odds to call, but you still have someone behind you to act. The other part of the equation -- can someone with aces fold after the flop. And, do you want a skirmish with the other big stack at the table? Is it better to put pressure on the smaller stacks? I tend to go with the latter, and even though I'm getting good odds to call with T8h it's a very vulnerable hand. This one is a much easier fold for me than hand 1. I just don't like the position, and the hand.
Cheers
Magi
Hand #1
there are no rebuys
there is only an add on after 1 hour
I know if I push all in the BB will call...i dont mind him calling since I am sure I have him beat.
As it turns out the BB has pkt 6s
I pushed all in and everyone folded back to the BB who calls and shows 6s
what a great spot I am in here....he has 6 outs....four 2s and the 2 remaining 7s
Your assessment that you have the best hand in #1 seems sound. Your read on the BB makes sense, and as you said, an overpair behind you seems unlikely. Here's an alternative scenario. What would you have done on the flop if it was checked to you?
For hand #2, I think you may be able to call with the worst of it here simply because you have so much information of your opponent's hand that you'll be able to play nearly perfectly on the flop and beyond. I'd like it much better if the stacks were somewhat deeper comapred to the pre-flop betting.
Personally, I prefer folding against the apparent AA since you'll out-flop it so rarely. Also, many times you do out-flop AA, it usually has decent re-draws against you (say, if you flop 2 pair). Another consideration is can your opponent be pushed off AA if a scary looking flop comes? My thinking is that such an opponent would be rare in the mid-stages of an $11+R. Save this move for Woodbridge.
ScottyZ
Hand #2 is a fold ,no question .You mentioned the tactic of trying to take those blinds now your stack is at risk with 10 8 hrts.To me i would lay it down and wait for something better to put my money into.
Curious how it played out for you thought ,good hands to post.
Good question Scotty
I think I would have checked the flop.
It was my read on the BB that led me to believe that I had him beat. It was the way he bet and the amount he bet. Once I was sure I had him beat I felt moving all in was the best way to get rid of what I assumed must be over cards in the hands of the players behind me. If the BB checks than I have no read on him and I would most likely check to see what develops.
For those interested here are the results of both hands
Hand #1
board is 345
I have 77 my opponent calls my all in bet with 66
turn is a J river is a 2 and I am busted out by a straight
Hand # 2
I call the raise knowing that my opponent has AA
the flop come 10 8 2 BINGO
I have top 2 pair
he bets 1600
I raise to 9000
he moves all in and I call all in for less than him
He indeed has AA
This is a monster pot and he immediately starts to swear in the chat box about me outflopping him
but his swears turn to cheers once a 2 hits the turn to counterfit my 2 pair and I am busted out.
Well I got all my money in on the flop with the best hand in both cases and just got unlucky. These are the things that have to go your way for you to get far in a tournament. I think a case can be made for folding pre flop in hand # 2 but I couldnt resist the chance to win a big pot when I knew what my opponent had in his hand.