AK early in an MTT
Villain is a very good player. Tight and aggressive. we have some history from past tourneys.
Seat 1 - BOONDOCK1219 (2,280 in chips)
Seat 2 - HOBBES114 (2,680 in chips)
Seat 3 - DUSHNCV (2,990 in chips)
Seat 4 - NAKALAKARAKA (3,700 in chips)
Seat 5 - 2AWSOME9 (3,120 in chips)
Seat 6 - GREENGOBLIN03 (2,970 in chips)
Seat 7 - DIPPYDOUGH (2,970 in chips)
Seat 8 - P0KERM0N (3,000 in chips)
Seat 9 - POCKETSTICK (3,260 in chips)
NAKALAKARAKA - Posts small blind 10
2AWSOME9 - Posts big blind 20
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HOBBES114 :ah :kd
GREENGOBLIN03 - Folds
DIPPYDOUGH - Folds
P0KERM0N - Folds
POCKETSTICK - Calls 20
BOONDOCK1219 - Calls 20
HOBBES114 - Raises 120 to 120
DUSHNCV - Folds
NAKALAKARAKA - Calls 110
2AWSOME9 - Folds
POCKETSTICK - Calls 100
BOONDOCK1219 - Calls 100
*** FLOP *** :10d :as :7d
NAKALAKARAKA - Checks
POCKETSTICK - Checks
BOONDOCK1219 - Bets 240
HOBBES114 - Raises 600 to 600 <- Should I have just jammed here?
NAKALAKARAKA - Folds
POCKETSTICK - Folds
BOONDOCK1219 - All-In(Raise) 1,920 to 2,160
HOBBES114 - ?
Pot is now $3260 and $1500 back to me.
Can I really fold here?
Still sitting w ~90BB even if I fold.
Seat 1 - BOONDOCK1219 (2,280 in chips)
Seat 2 - HOBBES114 (2,680 in chips)
Seat 3 - DUSHNCV (2,990 in chips)
Seat 4 - NAKALAKARAKA (3,700 in chips)
Seat 5 - 2AWSOME9 (3,120 in chips)
Seat 6 - GREENGOBLIN03 (2,970 in chips)
Seat 7 - DIPPYDOUGH (2,970 in chips)
Seat 8 - P0KERM0N (3,000 in chips)
Seat 9 - POCKETSTICK (3,260 in chips)
NAKALAKARAKA - Posts small blind 10
2AWSOME9 - Posts big blind 20
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HOBBES114 :ah :kd
GREENGOBLIN03 - Folds
DIPPYDOUGH - Folds
P0KERM0N - Folds
POCKETSTICK - Calls 20
BOONDOCK1219 - Calls 20
HOBBES114 - Raises 120 to 120
DUSHNCV - Folds
NAKALAKARAKA - Calls 110
2AWSOME9 - Folds
POCKETSTICK - Calls 100
BOONDOCK1219 - Calls 100
*** FLOP *** :10d :as :7d
NAKALAKARAKA - Checks
POCKETSTICK - Checks
BOONDOCK1219 - Bets 240
HOBBES114 - Raises 600 to 600 <- Should I have just jammed here?
NAKALAKARAKA - Folds
POCKETSTICK - Folds
BOONDOCK1219 - All-In(Raise) 1,920 to 2,160
HOBBES114 - ?
Pot is now $3260 and $1500 back to me.
Can I really fold here?
Still sitting w ~90BB even if I fold.
Comments
With 90bb ya you can still fold and not feel good, or you can call and be in a race and still not feel good;)
As played this is a fold, based on villain description.
What happened?
Villain has been described as good, tight and agressive.
What hands in his range that 3bet jams this flop are you ahead of?
You chop AK, crushed by A10, A7, sets, flipping with 89dd. Maybe you beat AQ/AJ occasionally.
You think hes doing this with 89off? KK? flush draw? Acerag? With his image?
Doubt it.
Im telling you, preflop I always jam AK in there, ESPECIALLY early...
woulda pushed him off his A10 if hes as good you say he is...
not to mention, seeing this board I have him on a flush draw, I bet you are still ahead after the flop.
WHAT HAPPENED!?!
bet you let it go, didnt ya.
Worst answer yet. your jamming 130BB to win 5BB.
Just for clarification, you'd rather get his 20 chips, and the pot of 70 by jamming 2,680 chips into it, rather than making him make a pot-sized call with AT when he's way behind.
Clearly this is why I'm not pulling 10k / month.
Mark
Im TAG early... I woulda jammed after the flop at least, not that weak ass raise.
Its why im the resident pro, and you are a nobody.
please tell us what happened hobbes.
So now you're risking 2560 to win 500?
< stands up, leaves room shaking head >
Mark
+1 this.... Maybe this works on your $2-3 tournies but just plain dumb higher... Talk about overplaying AK.. methinks the so called pro needs a big demotion.... Down to complete rookie, anybody disagree?
I like your line Hobbes, don't think it's a set as he woulda gone for the chk/raise likely. almost all do... Maybe A,10, maybe flush draw. Gotta go with your gut here..
LOL, I was trying to go for worst answer;)
$2-3 dollar tournies, please...
it just drives me wild that he gets sucked out on a,10 or a possible set with a dominating hand preflop...
in all honesty I woulda played it the same way, just wanted to generate a little discussion.
I did say "yet". It'll be tough but you can do it.
This is a perfect board to lead a set.
Villain played exactly the same way I would if I had a hand like 77/1010.
I hate getting it in with 1 pair this deep. I think early in a tourney it is the same as a cash game with deep stacks and I would never get all in with 1 pair here. I definitely flat the flop and reevaluate on the turn. You have position so make use of it.
ya i think kk aq ak, if hes that good i think he would play the set slower, but im playing lower buy in games, if the read is correct its a lay down, but i try not to give people to much credit.
Look at the action preflop. Villain is last to act behind a 6BB raise and 2 calls.
A good TAG has KK or AK exactly never. There is always a 3bet here.
And hes definately not shoving KK on that flop to a Hobbes reraise.
For you question about jamming to the initial donk lead, the reason you raise is to allow the villain to jam wider than their calling range is against your jam.
Did you considering flatting, because like how you feel now, when you get 3 bet jammed out, you feel like puking a bit.
Imo, raise with a plan. And if my plan was to raise, I'd be calling it off.
He could have KQ/KJ/QJd or possibly even 89d, considering the limp call. Given the lower blind level, all those hands are playable to a standard raise.
Edit - Just above Above's post and agree, there is also a good chance you are up against the nut flush draw, him limp/calling with like A9/AJd.
Timebanked and folded. Figured I would find a better spot as I was still deep (~90BB). Unfortunately went card dead or kept showing up with 2nd best hand.
Is my perception of TAG way out to lunch? I don't see KQ, KJ, QJ, A9 suited or otherwise, limp-calling here oop preflop....
I consider myself pretty tag, and I would definitely limp-call with 98 suited or any of the above hands.
1. if he is good, or if it was me, I feel my flop play is good enough to play these sorts of hands knowing that we aren't playing for 1 pair, but for strong draws. Ax/KQ/KJ/QJ/98d are either a slight favourite or barely a 52/48 dog, with the worst odds being for Ax as he is already dominated as maybe a 55/45 dog;
2. calling a standard raise at this blind level the raise isn't going to cause us substantial damage to our if we miss the flop and have to fold to a cbet; and
3. if he was going to be heads up with OP, and feels OP is also fairly TAG, 98suited should definitely be in his range. If villain feels OP range of hands is A10 or better, or most PP, playing suited connectors is the optimum hand to play, as the chances of being dominated are reduced; and
edit 4 - there are lots of implied odds with the other limpers in the pot.
I am not solely suggesting that villain had 98 or what not compared to a set or 2 pair already. But I would think it should be in his range. I am leaning towards hands like QJd or 1010 personally.
OP could jam there having top pair, a back door straight and a back door flush draw to the second nut flush if he is against a set. But I wouldn't jam as I am not going to jam as my hand is pretty much a bluff.
I would call flop reevaluate turn.
if you are going to limp-call...is it not better to raise oop?
hands like Ax, KQ, KJ, QJ are easily dominated by our TAG villians range are they not? Which is why we don't play them out of position???
I personally like 89s & 910s as well, when in position..
Am I putting too much emphasis on position this early on in the game with stacks this deep?
At this level, I am trying to see a flop as cheap as possible. Also, not knowing the tables dynamics, it may have been pretty passive and he figured he may try to get a cheap pot.
Which is also a reason we don't build a pot unnecessarily OOP. If we raise with the described hands, we are building a pot and most hands that call us, have us crushed. Playing some passive small-ball may allow us to see a flop as cheap as possible and go for our draw. Like I said, when I play that hand that early, I am going for big draws or better (obviously). 1 pair is not what I want.
I like it BETTER in position. But we have to be able to play hands like these OOP too, so that we can't be pinned to a certain range.
As for this hand, I wouldn't call the shove as I can't see many hands the villain rolls over that we can fist pump too. We are either crushed by a set, drawing thin to two pair or a back door draw or we are in a coin flip against a massive draw. Too much sweating to be done.