Aprentice / Mentor

Gonzo

I am an aspiring poker player who has always gambled and played "games" for money. Similar to Gus Hansen.

I was curious to see if there are any players who have showed jr's the ropes?

not expecting them to expose themselves to the group, or even to me. But how much can you really tell from these poker books what the story between the lines is? I know it is all situational and that you have to be skilled in many ways before even lifting up your hole cards but if someone doesn't teach you.... how will you know.

Okay so here is my shot in the dark... is there an experienced player out there that wants an underling? How did they turn pro, when did they know they were good enough for pro? etc etc...

theres much much more to say but I don't want to reveal too much as I may eventually play against some of these guys under my poker name.

hope to hear some replies (and pm's from the actual pro's)

thanks,

ScottyZ

You make it seem like poker is a den of mystery and intrigue.

While not as poetic, my experience with poker is that you can be a winner on focussing more on the basics: good card sense (odds, hand strength, etc), good player sense (reading player styles, reading physical tells), and good emotional control (not going on tilt, not playing differently while very stuck or while very ahead).

I'm by no means a pro player, but I'm what you might call a money making amateur. So, I'm not able to answer the sort of questions you have in mind if you are talking about the "lifestyle" aspect of playing poker for a living.

But how much can you really tell from these poker books what the story between the lines is?

First of all, before you start trying to read between the lines, try just reading the lines. If I had to quantify how much I've learned from reading about poker as opposed to any other way (playing it, watching it, talking about it, teaching others about it), I'd have to guess that 80% or more of the things I know about poker come from books. Not that books contain only facts and specific strategies, but (good) poker books teach you how to think about poker. In fact sometimes (good) books even contain incorrect information which you'll have to find your way through.

In short, you can get a *lot* out of poker books. Just reading the lines.

ScottyZ

stpboy

I am very surprised to hear (read) you say that 80% or more of what you have learned about poker comes from books. I find everytime I play I learn something new, perhaps I am not reading the right books. I remember Phil Ivey saying once that playing poker was like a sport, you need to practice it time and time again. I understand you need the fundamentals but I strongly feel that once you have the basic fundamentals you can learn everythig else from practicing.

stp

ScottyZ

Well, okay. I agree with your point, and I *do* learn a lot while playing. I guess my meaning for the 80% figure is that the things I learn at the table (or computer) while playing are building on what I've read in books more than 80% of the time.

Maybe I should have said that I've learned 80% or more of poker *theory* from books or something like that.

I agree with you that real poker practice is vital to learning poker, but maybe my point is you can't learn just by playing. And there are other ways to learn other than books of course. You might discuss an interesting poker hand with friends, hear Vince Van Patten say something intriguing, listen to Sidewinder Sid's tutorial messages after a Turbo Texas Holdem session, etc. I guess the idea is you can't learn poker from playing alone as if you were building a neural net from scratch.

To put it simply, (or possibly less simply) I feel that I learn a lot while playing, but not a lot by playing.

ScottyZ

Unknown

I feel that I learn a lot while playing, but not a lot by playing.

Thanks for clearing that up!!!

professor

I'm just the reverse -- I learn a lot by playing, but not while I'm playing.... I have to go back and rethink the big hands afterwards to figure out exactly what went wrong, or right. For me the value of reading poker theory books is that they give me a sound framework in which to make this analysis. In other words, I've learned from the books a way of thinking about the game that helps me to learn by playing more quickly than I would if I hadn't read the books.

And to the original poster -- come to our regular Friday no-limit game! We're forever trying to teach each other lessons...

ScottyZ

I agree again... I guess this is all coming down to wording. I don't learn much in "real time" at the table. It's more like I'm learning when I recall hands afterwards...

...erm... what you said professor. 8)

I give up because now the original post is making more sense to me than all the other ones. I'm going to go stare at the excess whitespace in the 2+2 books...

ScottyZ

SupaMuncher

I gave this advice somewhere else, but I found that the best (and cheapest) way to get acclimatized to the game was to play in a cheap, small buy-in tournament. That's how I started, and it was great for me.

Gonzo

Thanks for the responses guys,

What I'm really looking for (above and beyond the umpteen books I've read) is that these pro's all learned from someone. Phil Helmuth refers to his house as "the house that Bennetti bought" he was in 50-50 with John Bennetti (I think that was his last name) and won some huge events WSOP etc.... so these pro's all played together and learned from each other and all had someone responsible for getting them in the game.

I just think it would be so much easier if there was a "teacher" to go back to and say what went wrong. He would be able to pick it up much faster than we would ourselves. It would also help us not go on tilt thinking about it ourselves. The odds are great, and even trying to spot a tell is good too but we all have access to the same information and the same books. So in theorey it's a level playing feild. So where do we get that professional edge? Where do we go to get that extra/final ten percent of our game?

thats my real question.

Guess I needed to clarify my post as well

AND I'M SO DOWN FOR THAT FRIDAY NIGHT GAME! GIMMEE THE DETAILS!

professor

Hey Gonzo,

If you're in the K-W area send a personal message to sloth, and you're in.

See you accross the table!

Dan808

ScottyZ wrote:

First of all, before you start trying to read between the lines, try just reading the lines.

excellent line SZ!!