Where do I find these guys?

Richard~Richard~
in Brags, Beats & Variance
villain had been playing bad, like bs much and I was curious to see if I could take a big pot off of him. You can definitely question my call OOP or my turn bet but I have a pretty decent idea of what I'm doing (most of the time) and I was not about to give this guy a queen in this hand.

On the flop i honestly believe I'm raising for value ^^'

PokerStars Game #38050443455: Tournament #262010322, $8.00+$0.80 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2010/01/12 18:07:50 CET [2010/01/12 12:07:50 ET]
Table '262010322 147' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Tez1288 (9340 in chips)
Seat 2: wildmanner (4511 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: PureSkilling (16016 in chips)
Seat 4: IRichardI (13254 in chips)
Seat 5: billiardist (7176 in chips)
Seat 6: Ialogen (12076 in chips)
Seat 7: pwups_19 (6205 in chips)
Seat 8: sorsistelija (1524 in chips)
Seat 9: JHooker81 (21371 in chips)
Tez1288: posts the ante 25
wildmanner: posts the ante 25
PureSkilling: posts the ante 25
IRichardI: posts the ante 25
billiardist: posts the ante 25
Ialogen: posts the ante 25
pwups_19: posts the ante 25
sorsistelija: posts the ante 25
JHooker81: posts the ante 25
PureSkilling: posts small blind 150
IRichardI: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IRichardI [:9s :ts]
billiardist: folds
Ialogen: folds
pwups_19: folds
sorsistelija: folds
JHooker81: raises 600 to 900
Tez1288: folds
wildmanner: folds
PureSkilling: folds
IRichardI: calls 600
*** FLOP *** [:qh :8d :7h]
IRichardI: checks
JHooker81: bets 900
IRichardI: raises 1300 to 2200
JHooker81: calls 1300
*** TURN *** [:qh :8d :7h] [:3d]
IRichardI: bets 4000
JHooker81: calls 4000
*** RIVER *** [:qh :8d :7h :3d] [:jd]
IRichardI: bets 6129 and is all-in
JHooker81: calls 6129
*** SHOW DOWN ***
IRichardI: shows [:9s :ts] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
JHooker81: shows [:7d :kd] (a flush, King high)
JHooker81 collected 26833 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 26833 | Rake 0
Board [Qh 8d 7h 3d Jd]
Seat 1: Tez1288 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: wildmanner (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: PureSkilling (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: IRichardI (big blind) showed [9s Ts] and lost with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 5: billiardist folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Ialogen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: pwups_19 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: sorsistelija folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JHooker81 showed [7d Kd] and won (26833) with a flush, King high

Comments

  • compueasecompuease Admin
    What did you put him on at each point in the hand? I know I have seen the results, but maybe KQ diamonds plays it this way? Not to criticize as I know you guys play way higher than I but your line seems somewhat spewy to me.
    I think I need another level of thought... :)
  • UnknownUnknown
    lol, thats so gross...

    but from a donk perspective its not so bad, I can relate.

    he hit his 7, and called hoping to hit something else.. he caught a D.. now he has 4.

    then he was praying for a miracle on the river and caught another D to flush your chips right down to his hand.

    Richard, i like your playing generally, but you also were kind of fishy in this hand... not sure If I like your line on re raising after the flop...
  • Richard~Richard~
    He's raised 7 hands out of 9 and I've seen him 4bet shove top pair with 3 kicker and draw out a couple of hands back. I do regret the turn bet a bit but I can justify that a bit too.

    On the flop I thought he could have any one of the pairs, or any cheesy suited connector smaller than the board. The only time he didn't c-bet was when he made a set.

    I know this is sort of my own fault but I was thinking he could release a heart draw or an underpair to my turnbet. It's not even a bad beat (although the river is a cooler), I'm just amazed he followed me long enough to see 5th street lol
  • JohnnieHJohnnieH
    Once the 3 hits the turn, he's married to the hand. Even a shove would not have made him fold.
  • TilterTilter
    mmmmmm value raising T hi, CR'ing smallish on the flop and trying to push off the fish you saw shove with a 3 kicker. Not a recipe to get a guy to fold?
  • Richard~Richard~
    Tilter wrote: »
    mmmmmm value raising T hi, CR'ing smallish on the flop and trying to push off the fish you saw shove with a 3 kicker. Not a recipe to get a guy to fold?

    I do have more outs than him on the flop, I don't really mind trying to define his hand right there. It works well to narrow his range imo since he doesn't shove the whole 15k ball down my throat

    Edit: hmm, guess I don't have more outs than him on the flop since he has the backdoor FD, if he didn't have that it'd have been exactly 50/50 and as played I have about 47 percent equity against his hand. I thought I was doing it for value but I guess I'm flipping against huge parts of his range

    Also, a lot of the range the has me in a marginal spot with a high like KJ isn't gonna be calling me down. Just because villain is bad doesn't mean he can put it in with his entire range like many players fear when it comes to superloose players when playing after the flop.
  • TilterTilter
    You're being result oriented after the fact. In-game, your read was that he was a fish willing to get it in very thin, so you tried to run a meh semi-bluff (or value raising as you called it) on him that required 2 barrels before you hit for showdown value.

    What I'm saying is, there are probably better spots to call a marginal suited connector oop and then try to run something on a total fish. Like you said, you're prob flipping 50/50 with a decent stack vs the bottom end of his range. But what if he had the top of his range. Sure you got some implied odds, but that also decreases heavily playing a pot oop vs a call station when you still can't truly define his range because the the board is incredibly draw heavy and he'll be calling 2 barrels regardless with a pair or a draw leaving you in a wtf spot if you brick the river and have to decide to 3 barrel with only a 40% potsize bet behind.
    Also, a lot of the range the has me in a marginal spot with a high like KJ isn't gonna be calling me down. Just because villain is bad doesn't mean he can put it in with his entire range like many players fear when it comes to superloose players when playing after the flop.
    Like what I was trying to get to above, this part of the semi-bluff working also leans towards the board texture. Like if you chose to CR on air on a Q72, you're prob gonna get a lot more folds then CR oop vs on a Q87hh board. There would even be argument to c/folding the turn once he flats if you don't think he'll be persuaded off his draw.
  • UnknownUnknown
    this guy is obviously a call station, and this is not how you combat that. you can't get awful players to lay down, therefore find a made hand a value bet it to the river. you totally did this to yourself here and left the rest of the table wishing you still had chips.
  • Richard~Richard~
    Tilter wrote: »
    You're being result oriented after the fact. In-game, your read was that he was a fish willing to get it in very thin, so you tried to run a meh semi-bluff (or value raising as you called it) on him that required 2 barrels before you hit for showdown value.

    What I'm saying is, there are probably better spots to call a marginal suited connector oop and then try to run something on a total fish. Like you said, you're prob flipping 50/50 with a decent stack vs the bottom end of his range. But what if he had the top of his range. Sure you got some implied odds, but that also decreases heavily playing a pot oop vs a call station when you still can't truly define his range because the the board is incredibly draw heavy and he'll be calling 2 barrels regardless with a pair or a draw leaving you in a wtf spot if you brick the river and have to decide to 3 barrel with only a 40% potsize bet behind.


    Like what I was trying to get to above, this part of the semi-bluff working also leans towards the board texture. Like if you chose to CR on air on a Q72, you're prob gonna get a lot more folds then CR oop vs on a Q87hh board. There would even be argument to c/folding the turn once he flats if you don't think he'll be persuaded off his draw.

    I'm not results oriented. My read on him was that he was bad which was exactly why I tried to put a read on him in the first place since he played in a very straightforward way. I've seen him get it in thin, but never with worse than top pair.

    I remove the top part of his range just for cbetting the flop, I remove top pair from his range since I don't get every last chip shoved back on me when I raise the flop which doesn't happen very often since he's not gonna have the queen as often as a king or an ace obv. Even though the flop has a straight and flushdraw on it it's missing pretty big chunks of villains range so I'm really not that worried, I'm a big fan of the double barrel bluff on this board if you have enough chips. I'm not check-raising A87 for example even though many idiots like repping the ace every time the raise.

    On the turn he happens to have the part of the range that is calling me again and when he calls I'm obv done with the hand unless I hit the river which I happened to do. I don't like doing this without more chips normally but I felt confident I could pull it off a big percentage of the time (like I usually do ^^' )
  • Richard~Richard~
    darbday wrote: »
    this guy is obviously a call station, and this is not how you combat that. you can't get awful players to lay down, therefore find a made hand a value bet it to the river. you totally did this to yourself here and left the rest of the table wishing you still had chips.

    Umm, I promise to keep ranging up my opponents and trusting my reads. Would you be happy to see me at your table with chips lol?

    Try to consider all the times this line works in my favor: air giving up on the flop, diamond not hitting on the turn and so on (or a brick hitting the turn and him giving up a heartdraw) . Even given villains tendencies there's a decent chance he's folding the turn if the diamond doesn't hit
  • UnknownUnknown
    Richard~ wrote: »
    Umm, I promise to keep ranging up my opponents and trusting my reads. Would you be happy to see me at your table with chips lol?

    Try to consider all the times this line works in my favor: air giving up on the flop, diamond not hitting on the turn and so on (or a brick hitting the turn and him giving up a heartdraw) . Even given villains tendencies there's a decent chance he's folding the turn if the diamond doesn't hit

    thats fine and no im fine where i play ;) but im more saying it looked bad in there eyes, the play is still debatable.
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