Dealing with Frustration
OK...just finished my 10th in a row 4th place finish in a UB SnG and I'm close to tilting. I understand regression to the mean and variance but I'm damn frustrated here. I feel that there is something missing (perhaps experience...been playing 2 months) in the game that can get me to the next level.
...any advice from all you veterans out there? I'm ready to give up tournaments altogether and go back to ring games...
Bill
...any advice from all you veterans out there? I'm ready to give up tournaments altogether and go back to ring games...
Bill
Comments
Most all people on these forums know my experience in SNG's. That is all I play now. I finsih in the money according to my statistics, and poker tracker around 71% of the time. That doesnt mean I am getting first... but I do finish in the money meaning that I am making more than risking. I have been continually profitable at SNG's for the past 2 months and have been playing online and live poker for 2 years now.
Here is the difference between you and I. I play mostly 6 handed, so finishing in third for money wouldnt be an option as only the top 2 get paid out on 6 handed tables (70/30).
As you said you finished ten times in fourth place, in a row. Wow, like the above poster said that is pretty consistent. Here is some advice if the 10 handed table gets down too four and you are battling it out.
If you goal is too finish in first, sure go for the win... but think about this. If you finish in fourth by taking bad risks to get your chip stack up to finish in first, your not making any money. Again like the above poster said, try and sit back when you are in fourth. Just focus on making it to the money, dont neccessarily focus on winning every single time. Also look at winning in another way as well. The way I look at it is if I am making a profit by finishing in the money, than I am still winning. Period. Yeah sure it would be nice to get first all the time, but hey noone can do that. So yeah focus on finishing in the money. Dont take any crazy risks trying to build up your chip stack. Have tight-agressive play and things should start falling into place.
Heck 10 / 4th places finishes? And you only start playing 2 months ago? Wow, you are doing pretty well. Keep up the good work and remember just stay calm. Dont tilt no matter what happens, online poker when you are on tilt can eat through your bankroll before you know it. Trust me, have been there and done that. Going on tilt is the last thing you want to do online.
So like I said before, play solid tight-agressive poker and things should fall into place. Just focus on finishing in the money and let everything else take care of itself. Remember Dan Harrington made it to the final table of the WSOP 2003, 2004! 2 years in a row with the biggest tourney fields ever. How? Watch him play, he is one of the tightest players I have ever seen in my life, and he is a great person too model your play after. Just my opinions though... hope this was some help.
Just on a side note, Pacific poker offers 6 man SnGs where they pay top 3. I found it's a great way to get experience with shorthanded play with little bankroll risk.
1st: 6.25 (net +3.50)
2nd: 3.75 (net +1.00)
3rd: 2.50 (net -0.25)
I found them to be excellect when I was tight on backroll money. You could count on 1-3 maniacs at the table.
Oh, and I was wrong. They are 5 player SnG's with that payout. Not 6. That makes them even more attractive for shorthanded learning. You'll encounter every single profile of player..
I'm not entirely sure what you mean Dennis by "tight-aggressive." I know I need to do some more reading, but I enjoy the play so much perhaps I'm playing too much and not studying enough.
I really appreciate all your feedback...thanks again...can't recall the last time I fell in love with a game this fast.
Bill
'better' poker. I found I was getting past that early stage where most of the looser players would get busted out but I'd get stuck in the middle of the pack and have a hard time rising above.
You've got to sit down and think about what you could be doing wrong. Are you playing too tight? Are you gambling in the wrong spots? With a long string of just out of the money finishes, I doubt you are too loose or just unlucky.
I was playing what I thought was good poker. Patiently waiting for good starting hands, being very tight when someone raises. All the stuff that seems to work for me in limit poker. Unfortunately that doesn't work in NL. I'm still learning but here's what I can share with you now...
If you spend too long waiting for a premium hand or if you find yourself folding a lot after the flop, you'll be shortstacked before you get to the money. Tight play is called for when the table is full but when it gets down to the 6 player range or your stack get close to 10x the blinds, you've got to change.
I still haven't fixed the problem completely but the only thing I can suggest is being selectively more aggressive. Sklansky talks about the 'Gap Concept' - where you need a much stronger hand to call with than you do to raise with. Think about it. Generally, the first guy to push a big stack into the middle takes the pot right there.
You have to pick your spots, though. If you are early to act and there are many guys left behind you, you are more likely to get called. If you do it too often, guys will figure you are bluffing and call you if they have something decent. Also, be careful with big stacks or very short stacks behind you as these are more likely to call as well.
It is hard to try something new when you've plunked down some serious coin for a tourney. Try some of the cheaper tourneys first. I like pacific's 20-seat 2.50 + 0.25 NL tourneys. It's similar to the last 2 tables of a bigger tourney but only takes a little over an hour. Plus it's a fairly cheap laboratory! Try out some new stuff to see how it works.
Pacific also has a few nice free rolls each day. They are great for experiments! I tried some of this aggressive stuff on one of those. I didn't have a lot of time to play, so I thought I'd try to build my stack early on. If I got busted out, so be it. I had a fixed amount of time to play so I was just going to walk away when my time ran out and let the system blind me out slowly and come back later to see how I did.
I played tight early but when I got a decent hand, I went all-in pre-flop. It was kind of similar to the Sklanksy tournament system. When my time was almost up, I had something lame like J8s. Since I was ready to give up, I went all-in and had a caller with a much better hand. Miraculously, I won the hand but my table image was all too clear then. Amazingly, the very next hand was QQ. Of course I went all-in and a couple of other people thought I was a maniac and called me. They were none too happy with their results. That put me at about 4x the average stack with 400 out of the original 650 original players remaining. At that point I walked away from my computer. I ended up in 40th spot, just short of qualifying for a tourney later that day. Not a complete success but an interesting result.
You have to decide if you are satisfied with finishing in the money or do you want to win these tourneys. To finish in the money you've got to be more cautious, watch your stack and maybe wait for others to bust out. To win, you've got to be more aggressive and sometimes lucky. You'll bust out more often, though.
I hope some of this is helpful. I definitely need some help with my post-flop play. All you experienced tourney players, please jump in!
Glad you posted this - it was sitting under my mouse all this time. Jumped into a 5.50 SnG and finally won one. I was happy with my play too, stuck to quality hands, let short stacks slide out, stole a couple and changed gears heads up.
...thanks again all...great site and people here...
Bill