Dumbest play I've ever seen...

Cerberus

All I could do was shake my head.

PokerStars Game #35925663443: Tournament #229110495, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2009/11/27 14:00:52 ET
Table '229110495 159' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: tecoreco (3030 in chips)
Seat 2: McAusland (2990 in chips)
Seat 3: makswelhouse (2980 in chips)
Seat 4: kbrodie1 (3000 in chips)
Seat 5: silver0162 (3000 in chips)
Seat 6: Arrogance V. (3000 in chips)
Seat 7: MAXIMUS 1st (3000 in chips)
Seat 8: ibrar23 (3000 in chips)
Seat 9: Dobbeldutch (3000 in chips)
makswelhouse: posts small blind 10
kbrodie1: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to McAusland [4d 3c]
silver0162: calls 20
Arrogance V.: folds
MAXIMUS 1st: folds
ibrar23: folds
Dobbeldutch: folds
tecoreco: folds
McAusland: folds
makswelhouse: folds
kbrodie1: raises 20 to 40
silver0162: calls 20
*** FLOP *** [Jd Ad 3d]
kbrodie1: bets 200
silver0162: raises 200 to 400
kbrodie1: calls 200
*** TURN *** [Jd Ad 3d]
kbrodie1: bets 600
silver0162: raises 600 to 1200
kbrodie1: folds
Uncalled bet (600) returned to silver0162
silver0162 collected 2090 from pot
silver0162: shows [Kd Qd] (a Royal Flush)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2090 | Rake 0
Board [Jd Ad 3d Td]
Seat 1: tecoreco folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: McAusland (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: makswelhouse (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: kbrodie1 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: silver0162 collected (2090)
Seat 6: Arrogance V. folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: MAXIMUS 1st folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ibrar23 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Dobbeldutch folded before Flop (didn't bet)

JohnnieH

Yes it was dumb to raise with the mortal nuts, but the hero wouldn't have gotten much out of the villain on the river either.

T8urmoney

JohnnieH wrote: »

Yes it was dumb to raise with the mortal nuts, but the hero wouldn't have gotten much out of the villain on the river either.

Agreed, but your best chance for more is to call and hope he bluffs the river.

Definately not the dumbest play I've seen though.......profiting 52 BB's in any hand is pretty good IMO.

Monteroy

His raise was fine, if he had Kd4d the raise would be fairly routine as well in case the opponent has trips , 2 pair or a draw he will stick with. In reality this hand is no different except his hand has a fancy name and will beat boats and quads if that is what they hit on the river.

If the opponent has nothing then calling will not likely get that much more value, maybe a bluff on the river but it is pretty unlikely, and far too many times players will go into fancy play mode when they hit a mega monster and end up winning a much smaller pot as a result even though at this level tons of players will stack off with top pair any kicker hands.

The raise here was fine, a call is ok as well. If you want to see bad plays just wait for the no fold equity bluff plays and the bubble dry pot bluff plays to see some real power poker.

Cerberus

Monteroy wrote: »

His raise was fine, if he had Kd4d the raise would be fairly routine as well in case the opponent has trips , 2 pair or a draw he will stick with. In reality this hand is no different except his hand has a fancy name and will beat boats and quads if that is what they hit on the river.

This.

You're kidding right? There's nothing that can beat him. Literally. No card can come that will beat him. The min raise at this point doesn't make any sense. They're heads up, he has position. Flat call and give him the chance to bluff off his stack. Or, if he has trips or two pair, let him try for the boat. There's no +ev to that min raise in that spot.

Unknown

I don't really think theres an argument to get fancy on this one. The villian is either paired, drawing, bluffing or has a really strong hand. give him a chance to improve his hand, or a chance to bluff again. He is highly likely to bet the river in my opinion, and not as likely to call a bet. I think i've done this to myself once with a rf

Monteroy

No I am not kidding. At these levels fancy play is rarely productive when many opponents will pay off with marginal hands.

The fact he has a fancy flush that cannot be beaten is not as big a thing as you think in terms of how one should play it, and the fact you would immediately go into fancy play mode because it was a ROYAL FLUSH is exactly the kind of flawed play I see all the time at these levels.

People flop quads and check it to the river then do a tiny bet so even if they win they win nothing significant.

Unless you know this opponent is the type to fire multi barrel bluffs or bets with marginal hands then raising is still correct in my opinion in a $11 tournament.

Cerberus

First I've ever heard of flat call in position = fancy play. Interesting...

As I said, it doesn't make sense to raise here as opp had bet out on flop and again even harder on turn. Very likely he will bet the river. Give him that chance. The min r he made on the flop and again on the turn screams "I've got you fucked six ways from sunday, please come back at me." Just a bonehead mistake that doesn't allow him to maximize his profit. The min raise was too fancy imho.

Unknown

Monteroy wrote: »

People flop quads and check it to the river then do a tiny bet so even if they win they win nothing significant.

tournament.

this is likely becuase the board is paired or better, and the opponent doesn't have the paired cards because the hero does.

Monteroy

Sometimes, but usually it is just the fancy play gene kicking in. Have seen many times people check quads out of position the entire way only to see their quad 9s on the 1099 board beat someones QJ who also had a flush draw but was too passive to ever bet. They certainly would have called bets at some point even if they fold by the river.

Point is, at that level fancy play even with unbeatable monsters is rarely that useful or productive unless against specific opponents (ie: aggro donks who will keep firing). Against loose passives all you do is keep the pot too small when they would have called a lot, and good players are not going to fall into some fancy trick to lose anything significant anyway.

Cerberus

Monteroy wrote: »

Sometimes, but usually it is just the fancy play gene kicking in. Have seen many times people check quads out of position the entire way only to see their quad 9s on the 1099 board beat someones QJ who also had a flush draw but was too passive to ever bet. They certainly would have called bets at some point even if they fold by the river.

Point is, at that level fancy play even with unbeatable monsters is rarely that useful or productive unless against specific opponents (ie: aggro donks who will keep firing). Against loose passives all you do is keep the pot too small when they would have called a lot, and good players are not going to fall into some fancy trick to lose anything significant anyway.

Again, I'm not seeing where calling that bet is a "fancy" play. that comment makes no sense to me. Not saying it make no sense, just no sense to me. Difference of opinion I guess.

Monteroy

The call is fine, but a raise is fine as well. My point is that raising there in a $11 tournament is not a bad play let alone a "worse ever seen" level of play.

Lots of people play those types of monsters horribly out of position by going into fancy play mode and checking way too much. In position (as was the case here) there is a bit more flexibility in how it can be played without losing too much value.