Late in $10 Sng

reibsreibs
in STT Strategy
Pretty standard play from both of them, a lot of push folding happening. Both seem fairly hesitant to call an all in without the nuts. Then this...

PokerStars Game #35903742466: Tournament #216366302, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2009/11/26 23:21:58 ET
Table '216366302 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 6: KB local (4664 in chips)
Seat 7: babyface4eve (4545 in chips)
Seat 9: REEBS77 (4291 in chips)
KB local: posts the ante 25
babyface4eve: posts the ante 25
REEBS77: posts the ante 25
babyface4eve: posts small blind 200
REEBS77: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to REEBS77 [Js Jd]
KB local: raises 4239 to 4639 and is all-in
babyface4eve: calls 4320 and is all-in


I had my hand ready to snap call until the second all in... What would you do?

Comments

  • GrahamGraham
    Fold. Reason being is one of those players will hopefully be crippled after the hand or busted (moving you up in the money as long as they both don't have the same hand). Also, you could be behind if one of them has QQ / KK / AA, in a race with any 2 over cards with at least one of the players. I doubt they both have smaller pocket pairs, but it would be better to wait for another spot imo.
  • moosemoose
    They both have you covered = insta fold and you are moving up a spot unless they both have AA and chop.

    If I was midstacked and there was a short stack I probably call because only possible way you get hurt in that case is if you lose to both short stack and big stack. If you win then you have the big stack heads up, if big stack wins then you finish 2nd anyways, if short stack wins but you beat big stack then at worst you probably break even.
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    el foldo

    from you posting this I'm assuming the board was 94JJJ and you folded quints?
  • reibsreibs
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    el foldo

    from you posting this I'm assuming the board was 94JJJ and you folded quints?


    No, I folded thinking exactly what most suggested. Unfortunately for me the OR had A3o, which suprised me, and the 2nd guy had 9s. My Jacks woulda held, however I think I made the right fold given the circumstances.

    Thanks guys.
  • UnknownUnknown
    I'd call. You are 3 handed and in the money with 10 BB left. It's time to gamble.
  • UnknownUnknown
    we did a thread where you would fold aces if the whole table went all in. not sure if that applies here but it can be worked out easy no?

    id guess from that its a fold.....


    edit: actually maybe its a coinflip for the win?
  • Richard~Richard~
    I'd probably call cause we're curshing ranges so hard, I don't know what the payout structure dictates us to do but if we fold we're accepting going into heads up with a 2:1 chip deficit.

    If we're playing a 5 dollar tourney with payouts 10,15,25 we're then winning 25 dollars 33% of the time and 15 66% of the time so our EV is 0,33x25+0,66x15=18,3 dollars.

    Now if we call with our jacks we need the following to be true: (e= equity)

    25e + (1-e)10 > 18,3
    25e+10-10e>18,3
    15e>8,3
    e>8,3/15

    e>55%

    So we need 55% equity to make the call with the jacks unless we think we have a major edge heads up with 11 BB's. With jacks I'd assume our equity to be around 50% so I guess wewould really have to fold

    Queens is very borderline and kings we'd snapcall
  • reibsreibs
    Holy thread recovery batman! :D

    But thats a really good analysis Rich, thanks! I really need to start running through more hands like this afterwards, so that it becomes second nature at the tables... sngs I feel very confident in. Workin on my mtt game lately

    oh and it was a standard stars $10 sng payout of 45/27/18
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    Richard~ wrote: »
    I'd probably call cause we're curshing ranges so hard, I don't know what the payout structure dictates us to do but if we fold we're accepting going into heads up with a 2:1 chip deficit.

    If we're playing a 5 dollar tourney with payouts 10,15,25 we're then winning 25 dollars 33% of the time and 15 66% of the time so our EV is 0,33x25+0,66x15=18,3 dollars.

    Now if we call with our jacks we need the following to be true: (e= equity)

    25e + (1-e)10 > 18,3
    25e+10-10e>18,3
    15e>8,3
    e>8,3/15

    e>55%

    So we need 55% equity to make the call with the jacks unless we think we have a major edge heads up with 11 BB's. With jacks I'd assume our equity to be around 50% so I guess wewould really have to fold

    Queens is very borderline and kings we'd snapcall

    I think we have a new rival for Blondefish..:) No idea if this is correct or not but my head would hurt too much trying to determine if it is or not!... lol..
    You gotta get over to this side of the pond someday Richard, would love to have you play in one of our local tournaments... You are definitley one of my fav posters on here..
  • philliiveyphilliivey
    I second comp in saying my head hurts trying to figure out Richard's language:D
  • HVEEPOKERHVEEPOKER
    compuease wrote: »
    I think we have a new rival for Blondefish..:) No idea if this is correct or not but my head would hurt too much trying to determine if it is or not!... lol..
    You gotta get over to this side of the pond someday Richard, would love to have you play in one of our local tournaments... You are definitley one of my fav posters on here..
    Can u figure all of this out before the time bank runs out . lol
  • UnknownUnknown
    how does it work though if two players go out in the same hand?
  • Richard~Richard~
    HVEEPOKER wrote: »
    Can u figure all of this out before the time bank runs out . lol

    well I probably spend 90 seconds writing that this morning. So if I don't have to write anything and just do it in my head then probably yeah, but I play mtt's <.<
  • BuyinBankBuyinBank
    Great job with the math Richard. :)

    The solution is the important thing though and that's the snap fold. IMO, the QQ is meh and KK is a snap call is also correct, especially against the opponents as described.

    Nov 27th, 2009, eh?
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    reibs wrote: »
    standard stars $10 sng payout of 45/27/18

    ur getting screwed
  • Richard~Richard~
    BuyinBank wrote: »
    Nov 27th, 2009, eh?

    Lol, thanks =)

    But how in the world do you know this, I barely knew this ^^'
  • BuyinBankBuyinBank
    Instincts>Math sometimes, though the two even out.

    I have an engineering degree, so I can follow the math.

    I have 15+ years experience playing poker and 6+ playing Hold'em.

    Yeah, I'm a showoff....sorry.

    Great work!

    Oh, and the date....I'm sure you can figure that much out. :)
  • Richard~Richard~
    BuyinBank wrote: »
    Instincts>Math sometimes, though the two even out.

    I have an engineering degree, so I can follow the math.

    I have 15+ years experience playing poker and 6+ playing Hold'em.

    Yeah, I'm a showoff....sorry.

    Great work!

    Oh, and the date....I'm sure you can figure that much out. :)

    ok I just got owned somwhow <.<

    I wasn't even asking how you knew the math, I'd assume you're just that awesome and I wouldn't even bother asking since you probably just knew everything since the beginning of time.

    As for the date which was the only thing I was really asking about I got the idea that it was the first time I played online poker, which it is, on the date ^^' only it's one year off.

    As for the 2009 date, it seems to be the day after this hand was played which just makes me even more confused :P
  • BuyinBankBuyinBank
    Richard~ wrote: »
    ok I just got owned somwhow <.<

    I wasn't even asking how you knew the math, I'd assume you're just that awesome and I wouldn't even bother asking since you probably just knew everything since the beginning of time.

    I think I just got owned. :(
    Richard~ wrote: »
    As for the 2009 date, it seems to be the day after this hand was played which just makes me even more confused :P

    Yeah, the date is the day after the hand was played. I mentioned it because reibs pointed it out here:
    reibs wrote: »
    Holy thread recovery batman! :D

    Basically, the point is that "Rake Return" was searching the forum for a place to post and promote his rakeback website and found reibs dead thread, hence the thread recovery.

    You however, found it in the new posts section and took the thread to the next level with your sick math skills, which were really impressive, and buried his post. :D
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    BuyinBank wrote: »
    Instincts>
    I have an engineering degree, so I can follow the math.

    Undergrad or better?

    What school?
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    ur getting screwed

    Best post in the thread. This is where the true math is.
  • BuyinBankBuyinBank
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    Undergrad or better?

    What school?

    Just undergrad at UWO. Never stuck. Didn't enjoy it enough. Did a second degree in Film Studies at the same time, then went to Asia when I was done.
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    Best post in the thread. This is where the true math is.

    lol
  • Richard~Richard~
    lol, funny part is that I didn't even realize the thread was old until I read that just now :P
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    BuyinBank wrote: »
    Just undergrad at UWO. Never stuck. Didn't enjoy it enough. Did a second degree in Film Studies at the same time, then went to Asia when I was done.



    lol

    cool, what do you do in Asia?
  • BuyinBankBuyinBank
    Taught English and played poker. Now I'm joining a guy based in Shanghai who makes poker websites for a living. :)
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