Extremely long Regina trip report.
Just to warn you, this is pretty long. I wrote it on the flight back because I had nothing better to do. If you do read it, I hope you enjoy it!
I arrived in Regina on Thursday evening, armed with Sklansky's 'Tournament Poker for Advanced Players', Holden's 'Big Deal', and Jesse May's 'Shut up and Deal'. After throwing my stuff into my room at the Delta I proceeded immediately to the casino, very pleased that I wouldn't need a jacket for 3 days due to the above-ground walkways between the hotel, the casino, and the mall. My goal--other than making the money in Friday's limit or Saturday's no-limit tournament--was to never go outside.
So, I played 15/30 Thursday night for a while and met some really nice people, including Dave Scharf. He's a very popular man, so I didn't get much of a chance to talk to him over the weekend, but he seemed very pleasant, and helpful. I think these tournaments are a great opportunity for him to network with the other movers and shakers of the Canadian poker scene, and he appeared to be doing just that.
It was kind of weird to be sitting in a poker room in Regina and having Neil McVicar's face staring up at me from the little drink table; copies of Canadian Poker Player magazine had been strategically and wisely placed all over the poker room. The place was getting pretty packed due to the number of players arriving in town for the tournament. I was sitting next to a nice guy named Ron from Calgary I think, who was counting the number of times he's had aces cracked lately. (Last check he was having them hold up only 4 out of 17 times). I saw the 16th and 17th cracks, and both were ugly. 2 4o and 7 4o, calling the preflop raise.
So, while it sucked to see this happen to Ron, I really liked my table. I was up a bit when I went to bed early to rest up for Friday.
Friday's tournament drew somewhere around 245 players I think. I was pretty nervous. Top 27 spots paid, and I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to make it to the final 27. No mistakes. My table had a nice mix of players, and I was lucky enough to not be moved all day, so I could get a feel for some of the action players.
Here are a bunch of hands that I remember from the tournament.
After building my stack up slowly, holding steady with the average chip count, I was dealt 88 in EP at the 200/400 level and raised. A tight guy to my left called, as did the big blind. 3 of us to the flop: 8h 2c 4h. BB bets, I raise, both players call. So, there's at least one flush draw out there. Turn was the 5h. Uh-oh. BB checks, I check, guy to my left bets, BB check-raises, and now it's 800 cold to me. I couldn't afford to lose this pot, and had to gamble, so I called knowing I was currently beat. The guy to my left called as well.
The river was the beautiful 4c, giving me top full house. BB checked, I bet not wanting to risk going for a checkraise, and both called. BB had a rag flush, the guy to my left had KQh, and I had a nice stack in front of me.
However, as the limits went up, my cards were getting cold. I was below average when I limped in with the Kh Th in EP, and it was folded all the way to the BB who checked. The flop came ace high, no pair or draw for me, with 2 spades. BB checks and I bet, hoping to take it, but he called. Turn was another spade, we both check. River is a 4th spade, he checks, and I bet. My situation was such that I need that pot, and he thought for an agonizingly long time before flashing an ace and folding. Whew.
After a couple of lost blinds and level changes it was getting desperate for me. We'd been playing for a long time and were down to 30 players. I was shortstacked, no doubt, but there were at least 5 shorter stacks, maybe more. I had enough to wait it out until the money if I didn't get cards (or even if I did...) so that's what I did. After a couple of steals, I actually managed to make it down to 19 people left, guaranteeing me approx. $1500. I was very happy, but I had $500 into the tourney in rebuys/add-on's, and once you get close you just want to get closer.
I literally begged the dealer for good cards in my big blind as it approached, because I only had twice the amount of the BB left. He smiled sympathetically, and when my blind came he dealt me two black kings. Somebody raised, somebody called, and I called all-in, hoping to triple up. My seat had its back directly to the rail and neither of the players left in the hand were anywhere near me, so I flashed the kings to the growing number of people who had gathered to watch. The board ended up having 4 clubs, no ace, my king high flush was good, and I was back.
Shortly after that, I raised in EP with AhTh and a very good, very young player with his hood up 3-bet me. I called with a very bad feeling. Heads-up to the flop of 9h 7d 3h. I checked, he bet, I check-raised with my flush draw, and when he just called I put him on overcards. I had almost exactly enough left for a turn and river bet--he had only slightly more. One hand at these limits will cripple you; nobody at our table could afford more than maybe one or two mistakes. The turn was a brick, I bet my flush draw and tried not to move, think or breathe while he considered the situation, and he folded. He told me shortly after the hand, during the break, that he had AK.
So, I was in much better--though not outstanding--shape when this hand came up with only 11 of us left. One more person to bust out, then it's the final table. Folded to me in early MP and I raise with TT. Only the BB, a tricky and loose player, calls. The flop comes king high with two rags and no draw, and he bets into me. He has enough chips to bet his hand the whole way, coming only slightly short on his river bet. I have enough to call him down, but I'll be in the bottom 2 or 3 spots if I lose. And I thought about it for a while, how if he had a king it's an unusual way for him specifically to play it, just betting out like that, and I called. He bet the turn (a brick), and I called. The river paired the king, he bet all-in, I called, and he flipped up pocket sevens.
My tens were good, the game was paused, and they took down our names and chip counts for the final table. As it turned out, that hand made me the chip leader going into the final table by a very slim margin at 229,000 chips. I was thrilled, and called my girlfriend to update her.
So, a modest crowd had gathered around to watch the final table action, which was being broadcast throughout the casino. Everyone was introduced by their name, city, and chip count, and most everybody had brought a cheering section with them.
When it came to me I thought I heard crickets chirping behind the polite smattering of applause.
It was pretty funny.
First place paid $37,000, but I couldn't think too much about that. The chips were distributed fairly evenly around the table, so my chip lead, although nice, would guarantee me nothing at these levels. And then my cards went cold. Frigid. Nothing at all. I stole a couple, but not enough, and the gentleman in seat 10 was hitting every flop and generally having his way with us. My stack was dwindling, fast, when I made a semi-steal attempt from the cut-off with 8dTd. The big blind--the guy with the hood--called, with very few chips left. In retrospect, it's a bad idea to steal blinds from someone who has barely any chips left, because they're committed, but oh well.
The flop came AJ8 rainbow and I bet after he checked. He checkraised me, and I called because he only had enough left to bet short on the turn, which he did. Luckily for me, the turn was a ten, giving me 2 pair to call his all-in with. He had A4o, no help on the river, and I apologized to him as I shook his hand. "That's poker", he said.
With now only 7 of us left, I needed another win. After missing flops and getting dealt garbage, I was once again getting fairly low. Folded to the SB who had a stack smaller than mine, though not by a whole lot. He was playing fast and as expected, he raised my BB. I called with J8o, because I pretty much had to. The flop came J25 rainbow and he bet. I raised and he called all-in with A4o. The turn was a 3, giving him the gutshot straight, and I slapped my head in shock. (I was later told that the people watching on the closed-circuit TV got a kick out of that). I was almost dead, just hanging on. Someone busted out, and with 6 of us left, we took a break. I had exactly 2 big blinds worth of chips in front of me. Not good. Glancing at the pay chart, however, I noticed that 6th was to get around $4500, and 5th was to get around $6000. Although I was the lowest stack, there were two more low stacks as well, and my goal was to fluke my way into 5th.
As it turned out, we got back from break and the clock was stopped because another short stack wanted to propose a deal. I was very interested. And then he proposed what is far and away the most bizarre and (for me) delightful deal imaginable.
The chip leader (seat 10, HUGE lead) would be guaranteed 27K of the the 37K first prize. The other 10K of the first prize would go to whoever took 1st place. So, if the chip leader wins the thing, he gets the full 37K. If not, he gets 27K, which is MORE that 2nd place pays, so he literally cannot lose.
As if that wasn't bizarre enough, the proposed deal saw the remaining five of us split the remaining prize pool (about 55K) equally, at about 11K each. The guy in 2nd place in chips at the time wanted 1K from each of the four of us, and we agreed to give him $500 each. Truth be told, I'd have given him 2K myself, but I kept my mouth shut. So, with me about to blind my way to a $4500 win, we all agreed to the following:
Current chip leader: 27K guaranteed.
Current 2nd chip leader: Approx. 13K guaranteed.
Remaining four: Approx. 10.5K each, guaranteed.
Final winner: Additional 10K.
I couldn't agree fast enough. Soon after, I busted out calling a raise with Ah5h because I had to, but not before someone went out 6th, putting me at a respectable 5th place finish for a $10,374 prize. I played air guitar in the empty lobby as I walked out.
The no-limit tourney on Saturday didn't go as well. I finished at about 100 of 265 or so, getting my money's worth out of the day with about 7 or 8 hours of play. My stack was never huge, my cards were rarely great, and I busted out with a good hand (trips) losing to a better hand (full house). I'd decided to fly my girlfriend in that night to celebrate with me, and played in a lively 20/40 game while I waited. The plan was for us to get hammered and terrorize a 5/10 game. She's never really played poker before, at all, so the getting hammered part was very important.
When she arrived I was enjoying the company at the 20/40 game too much, so I made the dubious decision to 'celebrate' there, with her sitting behind me doing the same. Despite my very obvious innebriation, I kept a lid on my game and stumbled away ahead about $600 when the game broke.
I then tried to play in the 15/30 game, and when the dealer--the same one who dealt me the kings the day before--told me in a nice but pointed way that I was drunk, I decided that I should probably stop playing. This, despite the fact that my girlfriend was very amused and more than a little intruiged by the people and the situations she was seeing at the tables.
Before I went to bed, I checked in on the no-limit tournament just in time to see Ron--Mr. '4 for 17 with aces'--take 5th place as well. I guess they must have held up!
Regards,
all_aces
I arrived in Regina on Thursday evening, armed with Sklansky's 'Tournament Poker for Advanced Players', Holden's 'Big Deal', and Jesse May's 'Shut up and Deal'. After throwing my stuff into my room at the Delta I proceeded immediately to the casino, very pleased that I wouldn't need a jacket for 3 days due to the above-ground walkways between the hotel, the casino, and the mall. My goal--other than making the money in Friday's limit or Saturday's no-limit tournament--was to never go outside.
So, I played 15/30 Thursday night for a while and met some really nice people, including Dave Scharf. He's a very popular man, so I didn't get much of a chance to talk to him over the weekend, but he seemed very pleasant, and helpful. I think these tournaments are a great opportunity for him to network with the other movers and shakers of the Canadian poker scene, and he appeared to be doing just that.
It was kind of weird to be sitting in a poker room in Regina and having Neil McVicar's face staring up at me from the little drink table; copies of Canadian Poker Player magazine had been strategically and wisely placed all over the poker room. The place was getting pretty packed due to the number of players arriving in town for the tournament. I was sitting next to a nice guy named Ron from Calgary I think, who was counting the number of times he's had aces cracked lately. (Last check he was having them hold up only 4 out of 17 times). I saw the 16th and 17th cracks, and both were ugly. 2 4o and 7 4o, calling the preflop raise.
So, while it sucked to see this happen to Ron, I really liked my table. I was up a bit when I went to bed early to rest up for Friday.
Friday's tournament drew somewhere around 245 players I think. I was pretty nervous. Top 27 spots paid, and I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to make it to the final 27. No mistakes. My table had a nice mix of players, and I was lucky enough to not be moved all day, so I could get a feel for some of the action players.
Here are a bunch of hands that I remember from the tournament.
After building my stack up slowly, holding steady with the average chip count, I was dealt 88 in EP at the 200/400 level and raised. A tight guy to my left called, as did the big blind. 3 of us to the flop: 8h 2c 4h. BB bets, I raise, both players call. So, there's at least one flush draw out there. Turn was the 5h. Uh-oh. BB checks, I check, guy to my left bets, BB check-raises, and now it's 800 cold to me. I couldn't afford to lose this pot, and had to gamble, so I called knowing I was currently beat. The guy to my left called as well.
The river was the beautiful 4c, giving me top full house. BB checked, I bet not wanting to risk going for a checkraise, and both called. BB had a rag flush, the guy to my left had KQh, and I had a nice stack in front of me.
However, as the limits went up, my cards were getting cold. I was below average when I limped in with the Kh Th in EP, and it was folded all the way to the BB who checked. The flop came ace high, no pair or draw for me, with 2 spades. BB checks and I bet, hoping to take it, but he called. Turn was another spade, we both check. River is a 4th spade, he checks, and I bet. My situation was such that I need that pot, and he thought for an agonizingly long time before flashing an ace and folding. Whew.
After a couple of lost blinds and level changes it was getting desperate for me. We'd been playing for a long time and were down to 30 players. I was shortstacked, no doubt, but there were at least 5 shorter stacks, maybe more. I had enough to wait it out until the money if I didn't get cards (or even if I did...) so that's what I did. After a couple of steals, I actually managed to make it down to 19 people left, guaranteeing me approx. $1500. I was very happy, but I had $500 into the tourney in rebuys/add-on's, and once you get close you just want to get closer.
I literally begged the dealer for good cards in my big blind as it approached, because I only had twice the amount of the BB left. He smiled sympathetically, and when my blind came he dealt me two black kings. Somebody raised, somebody called, and I called all-in, hoping to triple up. My seat had its back directly to the rail and neither of the players left in the hand were anywhere near me, so I flashed the kings to the growing number of people who had gathered to watch. The board ended up having 4 clubs, no ace, my king high flush was good, and I was back.
Shortly after that, I raised in EP with AhTh and a very good, very young player with his hood up 3-bet me. I called with a very bad feeling. Heads-up to the flop of 9h 7d 3h. I checked, he bet, I check-raised with my flush draw, and when he just called I put him on overcards. I had almost exactly enough left for a turn and river bet--he had only slightly more. One hand at these limits will cripple you; nobody at our table could afford more than maybe one or two mistakes. The turn was a brick, I bet my flush draw and tried not to move, think or breathe while he considered the situation, and he folded. He told me shortly after the hand, during the break, that he had AK.
So, I was in much better--though not outstanding--shape when this hand came up with only 11 of us left. One more person to bust out, then it's the final table. Folded to me in early MP and I raise with TT. Only the BB, a tricky and loose player, calls. The flop comes king high with two rags and no draw, and he bets into me. He has enough chips to bet his hand the whole way, coming only slightly short on his river bet. I have enough to call him down, but I'll be in the bottom 2 or 3 spots if I lose. And I thought about it for a while, how if he had a king it's an unusual way for him specifically to play it, just betting out like that, and I called. He bet the turn (a brick), and I called. The river paired the king, he bet all-in, I called, and he flipped up pocket sevens.
My tens were good, the game was paused, and they took down our names and chip counts for the final table. As it turned out, that hand made me the chip leader going into the final table by a very slim margin at 229,000 chips. I was thrilled, and called my girlfriend to update her.
So, a modest crowd had gathered around to watch the final table action, which was being broadcast throughout the casino. Everyone was introduced by their name, city, and chip count, and most everybody had brought a cheering section with them.
When it came to me I thought I heard crickets chirping behind the polite smattering of applause.
It was pretty funny.First place paid $37,000, but I couldn't think too much about that. The chips were distributed fairly evenly around the table, so my chip lead, although nice, would guarantee me nothing at these levels. And then my cards went cold. Frigid. Nothing at all. I stole a couple, but not enough, and the gentleman in seat 10 was hitting every flop and generally having his way with us. My stack was dwindling, fast, when I made a semi-steal attempt from the cut-off with 8dTd. The big blind--the guy with the hood--called, with very few chips left. In retrospect, it's a bad idea to steal blinds from someone who has barely any chips left, because they're committed, but oh well.
The flop came AJ8 rainbow and I bet after he checked. He checkraised me, and I called because he only had enough left to bet short on the turn, which he did. Luckily for me, the turn was a ten, giving me 2 pair to call his all-in with. He had A4o, no help on the river, and I apologized to him as I shook his hand. "That's poker", he said.
With now only 7 of us left, I needed another win. After missing flops and getting dealt garbage, I was once again getting fairly low. Folded to the SB who had a stack smaller than mine, though not by a whole lot. He was playing fast and as expected, he raised my BB. I called with J8o, because I pretty much had to. The flop came J25 rainbow and he bet. I raised and he called all-in with A4o. The turn was a 3, giving him the gutshot straight, and I slapped my head in shock. (I was later told that the people watching on the closed-circuit TV got a kick out of that). I was almost dead, just hanging on. Someone busted out, and with 6 of us left, we took a break. I had exactly 2 big blinds worth of chips in front of me. Not good. Glancing at the pay chart, however, I noticed that 6th was to get around $4500, and 5th was to get around $6000. Although I was the lowest stack, there were two more low stacks as well, and my goal was to fluke my way into 5th.
As it turned out, we got back from break and the clock was stopped because another short stack wanted to propose a deal. I was very interested. And then he proposed what is far and away the most bizarre and (for me) delightful deal imaginable.
The chip leader (seat 10, HUGE lead) would be guaranteed 27K of the the 37K first prize. The other 10K of the first prize would go to whoever took 1st place. So, if the chip leader wins the thing, he gets the full 37K. If not, he gets 27K, which is MORE that 2nd place pays, so he literally cannot lose.
As if that wasn't bizarre enough, the proposed deal saw the remaining five of us split the remaining prize pool (about 55K) equally, at about 11K each. The guy in 2nd place in chips at the time wanted 1K from each of the four of us, and we agreed to give him $500 each. Truth be told, I'd have given him 2K myself, but I kept my mouth shut. So, with me about to blind my way to a $4500 win, we all agreed to the following:
Current chip leader: 27K guaranteed.
Current 2nd chip leader: Approx. 13K guaranteed.
Remaining four: Approx. 10.5K each, guaranteed.
Final winner: Additional 10K.
I couldn't agree fast enough. Soon after, I busted out calling a raise with Ah5h because I had to, but not before someone went out 6th, putting me at a respectable 5th place finish for a $10,374 prize. I played air guitar in the empty lobby as I walked out.
The no-limit tourney on Saturday didn't go as well. I finished at about 100 of 265 or so, getting my money's worth out of the day with about 7 or 8 hours of play. My stack was never huge, my cards were rarely great, and I busted out with a good hand (trips) losing to a better hand (full house). I'd decided to fly my girlfriend in that night to celebrate with me, and played in a lively 20/40 game while I waited. The plan was for us to get hammered and terrorize a 5/10 game. She's never really played poker before, at all, so the getting hammered part was very important.
When she arrived I was enjoying the company at the 20/40 game too much, so I made the dubious decision to 'celebrate' there, with her sitting behind me doing the same. Despite my very obvious innebriation, I kept a lid on my game and stumbled away ahead about $600 when the game broke.
I then tried to play in the 15/30 game, and when the dealer--the same one who dealt me the kings the day before--told me in a nice but pointed way that I was drunk, I decided that I should probably stop playing. This, despite the fact that my girlfriend was very amused and more than a little intruiged by the people and the situations she was seeing at the tables.
Before I went to bed, I checked in on the no-limit tournament just in time to see Ron--Mr. '4 for 17 with aces'--take 5th place as well. I guess they must have held up!
Regards,
all_aces
Comments
Congrats on your 5th place in the limit tourney. I hope the crickets gave you a thunderous ovation at the end.
hork.
stp
There are 3 per year. I don't think I'll be checking out the summer one, but I'll probably return next fall.
Regards,
all_aces
In terms of that deal, I can't think of anything to say except "?".
At first, I had a hard time trying to figure out exactly who got the worst of that deal. At the very least it was *extremely* well crafted to be confusing and opaque enough to give the two small stacks (likely) more than they deserved. But, who was taking a particularly bad deal here?
Do you remember the payouts for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th?
So far, we know
1st = 37K
.
.
.
5th = 6K
6th = 4.5K
which leaves about 44.5K in the prize pool. I would guess that a reasonable payout structure might have been something like (and I'm just guessing here)
1st = 37K
2nd = 21K
3rd = 14.5K
4th = 9K
5th = 6K
6th = 4.5K
If that's approximately the payout distribution, it would seem like the 2nd chip leader is taking far the worst of it, and even the 3rd and 4th place chip leaders are conceeding too much by taking a prize so far under each of the top 3 prizes. It actually doesn't seem to be too bad for the 1st place chip leader, since $27,000 guaranteed is (probably) higher than 2nd place anyway, and he still gets a free ride (and a good chance) at winning the $10,000 anyway.
"?"
ScottyZ
Glad you enjoyed the trip report! Here are the top 6 payouts, as posted on pokerpages.com. (They spelt my name wrong...
1 $37,686
2 $21,498
3 $13,260
4 $8,781
5 $6,199
6 $4,631
Your guesses were very good. As it turned out, the guy who had the massive chip lead who was guaranteed 27K ended up taking 2nd place, and the most money. Bizarre. Like I said, if I wasn't about to be blinded out (my stack was tiny), I never would have gone for it.
Regards,
all_aces
At risk of repeating All_Aces post, I am going to walk through why this is the most bizarre deal I have EVER seen.
The remaining six agreed to guarantee first place $27K. They held back 10K to play for. And, they each took an equal share of what's left. At the eleventh hour the 2nd chip count says "give me $500 each and I will take the deal" They agree and so the final deal is this:
Chip leader: $27K
2nd chip: 13K
3-6 chip: 10.5K
They still play for $10K.
This means that the chip leader is on a COMPLETE freeroll. He will either get $27K (much better than finishing in second) or he will get $37K (first place prize money). That means, without a doubt, that the field gave the chip leader MUCH MUCH MUCH too much. Did everyone get screwed?
Not neccesarily. All_Aces was in 6th place. His equity was almost certainly way below the $10.5K that he got. So... he also got a great deal.
The people who shot themselves in the foot were those in the middle of the pack who gave away a TON of their equity to first and sixth.
The interesting lesson, I guess, is that many many players truly do not understand deal making. The chip leader -- despite getting a FREEROLL -- took about ten minuted to agree to the deal because he was worried that he was getting talked into something.
The other lesson is that there is a "magic number." In this case, it looks very much like the magic number was $10K. For most of the players $10K is a lot of mooga. Promised that much they became very anxious to lock it up. Find a guys magic number, offer him that amount, and you can probably get a good deal for yourself.
For myself, I am not sure that I could take such a deal. Even if I was All_Aces and I was coming out ahead. I could NOT let the chip leader get away with a deal like that and I am almost certain that I would scuttle the deal and play on.
In the three that I have won at CR I made no deal twice and I chopped 50/50 the other time. What I REALLY like is when a player with less chips that me says "Do you want to make a deal?" I will usually listen to the offer and then say "Let's play another hand or two." What I have learned is that if a player offers a deal then that means he is willing to deal. I generally try and win it all, but will deal to preserve a big win once the chip counts are even and I respect my opponent.
I hear you that you don't want to give the 1st place player so good of a deal (especially if you are in 2nd-5th place with reasonable chips), but if you were in All_Aces' spot with just *two big blinds* left (IIRC), could you really turn down moving up to around 10K when you are very likely to get 4.5K with an outside change of getting 6K? That's like shooting yourself in the face to prevent your 2nd-5th place opponents from shooting themselves in the foot.
I've got to say, I would have also been like:
but I probably would have air drummed instead of guitared in the lobby. 8)
ScottyZ
I see your point Dave, and it's obviously a good one. I understand, from your posts, that you see my point as well. A seasoned tournament player such as yourself would obviously give some thought to the unbelievable deal first place was getting, and regardless of your own position in the deal, it makes sense that you would axe the deal based on that.
A relative newcomer such as myself, though, doesn't give as much thought to how good or bad the others are coming out of the deal. I--selfishly, I admit--only thought about how the deal worked for me, and was eager to agree.
I've read TPFAP as most have, and Sklansky outlines what constitutes the makings of a fair deal. If I had more chips, I likely would have tried to construct something based on that model, and would have then determined whether or not I wanted to go for it.
It would be very difficult to do the math for six people, though. If I had a shot at first, unless I was being offered the deal of a lifetime, I'd probably want to play on.
Here's yet another weird part to the story: after I determined that I was getting more than my fair share out of this deal, I was the one who explained how good it was to the chip leader. And I didn't want to do that, because that would take us all down the road towards constucting a "better" deal, which would likely be worse for me.
But, I explained it to him regardless, in these terms: You cannot lose. We are guaranteeing you better than second place money, and if you do take first, you still get the full 37K. You can't lose. It was at that point that he agreed, but I was worried that by just putting it out there like that some of the other players would start to object to the deal themselves.
They didn't, and although I knew the chip leader was being handed a huge chunk of cash on a silver platter, I bit my tongue.
Like I said, I'm not losing sleep over this. If people can't protect themselves and their interests, it's not my problem. That's poker, essentially.
Regards,
all_aces
ps: I'm finding this conversation to be very interesting.
You're telling me that it was the _chip leader_ who was the one who needed to be convinced that this deal was good for *him*???
Aiyah.
It's interesting that you had to convince the chip leader that he was getting a "good enough" deal without giving away to all of the other players that the deal was far too good for him. Talk about a poker face.
ScottyZ
And poker tables produce their fair share of interesting situations!
I don't mean to slight the chip leader's play, at all. I assume he did a lot of things right throughout the course of the day. But at the same time, I only played with him at the final table, and he was being dealt big pocket pairs. When he wasn't getting those, he was showing down good starting cards that had hit the flop, hard.
At the limits we were playing, it doesn't take long to build a huge stack if the deck is running over you.
So, with those kinds of cards, I have no way of knowing if he's spent a WHOLE lot of time playing poker throughout his life. I, also, thought it was odd that he needed to be convinced that this was a good deal for him, and I can only chalk it up to either nerves, or a lack of familiarity with these types of calculations.
That about says it all. I'm glad you're finding this as interesting now as I did then.
Regards,
all_aces
Way to all aces!!
For those who are interested in lame cameo television appearances... I'm going to be on a show called Off The Record on TSN tonight. It airs at 6:00 in Ontario. I work for the show, and every day at the end of the 2nd block right before commercial they have a 'Quirky Fact'.
I'm today's quirky fact. They just put up the info about me and the tourney, and then a still of me holding up the hand that turned the whole thing around for me.
Pretty cheesy lol, but if anyone happens to be watching, well, that's me.
Regards,
all_aces
ScottyZ
ummm were these payouts in CDN funds or US funds? :?:
thanks,
CO
Probably Canadian since this was a B&M tournament in Regina.
ScottyZ
i guess i'm a little confused on the actual payout :?
all_aces finished #5 with $6,199
and somewhere else in this threads he got $10,374
i'm missing something
Typically, a deal actually ends the tournament, but in this case, they actually had to play it out to determine who got the additional $10K for first place.
ScottyZ
so i guess the $10,374 included a portion of the $10K + the $6,199 (for a 5th place win) :?: :? :shock:
When a deal is made and agreed to in a tournament, the original payout scheme is basically thrown out.
If the deal has the approval of the tournament organizers (and if the organizers are helpful), the house will simply pay out the players using the *new* payout schedule as it is set out in the deal.
If the deal is "under the table", the individual players will be paid out by the house according to the original tournament schedule, and they will have to pay/receive money to/from each other so that everyone ends up getting the agreed upon amounts.
I believe the second case is quite relevant to the WSOP, since I've heard that no deals are allowed in events which will be televised on ESPN. But it's pretty hard to prevent players from making deals off camera.
ScottyZ
The $10,374 totally replaced the $6,199. A deal is made when the last few players in a tournament have a pretty good idea of whereabouts they'll finish, but sometimes they'd rather lock up a set amount of money, in order to try and minimize the 'luck' factor.
For example: let's say there are 3 people left in a 10-person tourney that is set up to be winner-take-all. Each of the 3 people has exactly 5000 chips, but since the tourney's gone on for so long, the blinds are 1000/2000.
Obviously, since nobody has more than 2.5 X the big blind in their stack, luck will be a massive factor in determining who wins. Skill is almost entirely out of the mix at this point.
In this situation, the three remaining players would very likely want to pause the clock, and agree to a deal. Maybe each of them gets exactly 25% of the total prize pool, and then they play on, knowing that they are each guaranteed that money, regardless of what happens. The remaining 25% would go to the winner at the end, for a 50% prize in total.
Deals are a bit weird, because there are no hard and fast rules to them. Hopefully, between this and Scotty's posts, it's a little more clear.
Regards,
all_aces