BCC Tourny hand. Is this cheating?

stpboy

Ok, first of all I did not do this and I do not think that I would do this BUT poker is about deception and I have thought about this a lot lately and was wondering if it would a) work b) be cheating c) result in me being disqualified.

Hand

33 people remain out of original 250. Top 10 get paid. Blinds 700/1400. I have 15K.

EP calls, SB (me) calls with Ac6s, BB checks.

Flop 3c 9c 7c

I check, BB checks and EP bets 5K.
I raise 10K and go all-in.

******
There are about 50 people watching this hand go down and the tournament director comes over due to the "all-in". The EP bettor is thinking about what to do here, thinks for 2 solid minutes.
******

Now....If I flip my two cards very quickly to show him briefly and tell him I have the nuts, hiding the fact that the 6 is a spade (which is possible) and tell him that I'm worried about him having a set and outdrawing me. Does he fold? Yes, I think so. Is that against the rules? Is the result that my hand is dead? Would you do this if it was within the rules at your game?

This was the hand that I was eliminated on, he had 4c5c and I didn't improve.
I have thought about this a lot since then, would I have done it if it meant that I was going to win 50K?

Thanks for the responses.

stp

ScottyZ

There are two different things you are considering here.

1. Showing one of your hole cards before the action is complete.

2. Talking about your hole cards.

The rules (and any penalties that may go along with those rules) of any specific tournament are up to the organizers.

If I was somehow running a tournament, I'd allow neither of these, the penalty being the hand being declared dead if the hand is heads-up, and possibly a stiffer penalty if the hand was multi-way at the time of the infraction.

I personally consider neither of these to be ethical, and wouldn't do either of these things even if allowed in a particular game I was in. (I'd also be unlikely to continue playing in this game if this was commonplace, unless the game as a whole was not meant to be at all serious in the first place.)

Finally, if I was your opponent in this case and you flashed me the single Ace of clubs (or equivalently, both cards with one of the suits obscured), I'd call you instantly with a made flush. A typical opponent with the nuts is going to sit quietly and do nothing to provoke you, not flash a hole card.

ScottyZ

stpboy

People at the tables always try and play mind games with eachother, some are more subtle than others. Obviously deliberately flipping your cards so your opponent can see would NOT be subtle. Whether or not it is unethical is to be debated I suppose. Again, I didn't do it. I likely, wouldn't do it. I would also not play at a game that allowed that type of thing.

It had just crossed my mind that if I had done that he may have layed it down. Of course, I lost on the hand so my "What if" brain started clicking.

stp

ComaU

If you had shown your cards in the BCC tournament you hand would NOT have been ruled dead. It should be IMO but wouldnt have if they stay consistant.

It had happened with 11 players remaining and nothing was done. I don't remember how it happened and it wasnt at my table but im sure Kev could post what did happen as he saw it.

stpboy

Yep, I think you're right. Maybe that's what got me thinking about this in the first place. A guy flipped over his queens to call an early players all-in when there was still a player behind him to call. The hand was allowed and the early player that went all-in was eliminated.

stp

MickeyHoldem

A guy flipped over his queens to call an early players all-in when there was still a player behind him to call. The hand was allowed and the early player that went all-in was eliminated.

This sounds like an inadvertant mistake... not realizing there was a player left to act. This is quite different that deliberately showing your cards. From Robert's Rules of Poker... (concerning tournaments)...

Showing cards from a live hand during the action injures the rights of other players still competing in an event, who wish to see contestants eliminated. A player may not show any cards during a deal (unless the event has only two remaining players). If a player deliberately shows a card, the player may be penalized (but his hand will not be ruled dead). Verbally stating one’s hand during the play may be penalized.

Penalties vary depending on the TD.:D

Irah

ScottyZ wrote:

Finally, if I was your opponent in this case and you flashed me the single Ace of clubs (or equivalently, both cards with one of the suits obscured), I'd call you instantly with a made flush.
ScottyZ

Nice, if I ever play Scott Gusba in real life, I cant wait to flash one of my Nut cards, and get paid of huge!

LOL