What do you do here?

Irah

This is from a $10 regular SnG on Stars. The hand occured within the first 5 hands of the game, so I dont have a decent read on my opponents.

I am *Islander*99

PokerStars Game #889601210: Tournament #3606312, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2004/11/24 - 15:12:18 (ET)
Table '3606312 1' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Jjasonei (2010 in chips)
Seat 2: wvslimjim (1720 in chips)
Seat 3: hookem78 (1410 in chips)
Seat 4: Lepton_314 (1480 in chips)
Seat 5: *Islander*99 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: alioop501 (1460 in chips)
Seat 7: Tim8178 (1360 in chips)
Seat 8: mediamike (1280 in chips)
Seat 9: FINS34 (1280 in chips)
Lepton_314: posts small blind 10
*Islander*99: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to *Islander*99 [Kc 7c]
alioop501: calls 20
Tim8178: folds
mediamike: calls 20
FINS34: folds
Jjasonei: calls 20
wvslimjim: folds
hookem78: folds
Lepton_314: folds
*Islander*99: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kh 6c 5h]
*Islander*99: bets 60
alioop501: calls 60
mediamike: calls 60
Jjasonei: calls 60
*** TURN *** [Kh 6c 5h] [4c]
*Islander*99: bets 200
alioop501: folds
mediamike: raises 380 to 580
Jjasonei: folds
*Islander*99: ?


My thinking on the flop was to make a small bet to see where I was at, then with a very nice turn card for my hand, I make a decent size bet only to be raised.

What should I have done?

Unknown

Interesting hand. With that flop, and 4 callers, you have to assume that yours is not currently the best hand. You can write off 1 or even 2 of your opponent's hands to flush draws, and maybe one more to 78 for an open-ended straight. The other hand is probably either slightly stronger than yours (hence, no raise on the flop) or it's a real powerhouse like 2 pair, or more likely a set that your opponent is foolishly slowplaying on a dangerous flop.

That turn card is great for you, but it's the classic NL mantra 'don't bet if you will hate a raise'. I'm usually more inclined to check the turn when I pick up a draw, hoping that I'll only have to call a small bet. Basically, I bet with nothing on the turn far more often than I do with a draw, especially in NL.

So, I probably would have checked the turn. But since you bet and were raised, I'd probably call that raise and have a look at the river, assuming that my pair of kings is no good.

Cheers,
all_aces

ralphthemouse

usually this early in an SNG im trying to avoid risky situations, so id probably fold on the raise

if you folded, you would be left with 1200 or so, which would still make you very much in the game. however, if you call and lose it would be a crippling blow to your stack--that is, if you dont hit your flush of course

i usually play 5+.50 sngs but during the early stages im not going to take this kind of a risk. id be looking to either double up with a great hand or just be content to sit there until the blinds are worth my trouble.

edit: i would also have checked-called the turn, considering the number of callers and the possible straight. but personally i wouldnt call a raise looking for the flush this early in the sng

hope this helps a little

ScottyZ

I would check the flop with the intention of folding. (I may call a micro-bet of 20.) I don't like my hand.

If it's checked around on the flop, I check with the intention of folding again on the turn. I can't beat two pair, and someone betting that turn card says they have at least that much hand. The one card straight draw with two hearts showing is a slippery draw to attempt.

As it actually went, this is an easy fold. Your opponent raising you here indicates great strength. Your opponent likely has a made straight already, probably the 78. (The implied odds to chase a gutshot certainly justify a flop call with that particular hand.)

ScottyZ

ScoobyD

(The implied odds to chase a gutshot certainly justify a flop call with that particular hand.)

Actually it was open ended

The pot is laying you slightly less than 3-1 on a call here. You are close to that to make either the straight or the flush since you have 15 outs. Of course you'd have 3 less outs if you are indeed up against a made straight with 8-7 (and 3 other outs would give you a chop). I don't think I would have wanted to put myself into risking this much of my stack this early on a draw, but now that you're in the hand, I don't think a call here is that horrible.

That being said, I think personally I would fold, and prefer to live to fight another day with a modest stack still in front of me...

MrBluffsAlot

ScoobyD wrote:

Actually it was open ended

I think he meant mediamike

Irah

If only I was thinking like ScottyZ and all_aces. I would have saved myself $400.

I suppose I got exited when I saw the turn card which gave me the flush draw, straight draw, to go with top pair, that I thought Id bet.

So, what did I do...

I may as well follow up one bad play with another... I called.

River was the useless 4D, I check, he bets another $400, I quickly fold, he shows 87.

Oh well, live and learn.

thanks for the input.

Unknown

Results aside, I don't think it's an easy fold to the 380 raise. After he bets the 200, it's 380 to call into a 720 pot. He has an open-ended straight draw, and a 4-flush. If he folds to the raise, he has 1220 left. If he calls the raise and misses his draws and folds, he has 840 left. If he calls the raise and hits his draw, he could stand to take his opponent's entire stack. I know some of his outs may be to a chop, but if he misses I think he's still in OK shape with 840.

Not saying he should necessarily call the raise, but with an open-ender *and* a 4-flush, I don't think it's the easiest fold in the world either, when you factor in implied odds, and the fact that if he calls and misses he'll still have 840 chips with very low blinds.

Regards,
all_aces

ScottyZ

Woops... didn't notice that the backdoor flush draw materialized. I change my mind and check the turn with the intention of calling a bet that's not too big. (maybe ~200 or 300 is my limit)

A great example on the turn (as a_a pointed out) of "don't bet when you hate getting raised".

And I agree that folding for that raise isn't as easy as I thought it was. In fact, I'd probably go ahead and call. I was thinking fold in the case that there was no flush draw.

ScottyZ