Omaha hi/lo analysis

stpboy

Can i get away from this was going to be my original question but in hindsight, of course I can. Every instinct told me to fold here on the flop and then, to quote Dave Scharf "monkey brain set it". What would you do here though?

Game #226868813: Omaha High/Low Pot Limit ($0.50/$1) - 2004/11/24 - 13:56:48 (EST)
Table "Hambur" Seat 7 is the button.
Seat 1: RUUD BOY ($147.25 in chips)
Seat 2: grotto6 ($50 in chips)
Seat 3: sheerluck ($48 in chips)
Seat 4: __data__ ($181.50 in chips)
Seat 5: YoMamaJo ($44.25 in chips)
Seat 6: Youngtubs ($69.75 in chips)
Seat 7: sirus ($25.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Claudius2 ($122.50 in chips)
Seat 9: stpboy77 ($95.25 in chips)
Seat 10: butfer ($19 in chips)
Claudius2: posts small blind $0.50
stpboy77: posts big blind $1

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HOLE CARDS

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dealt to stpboy77 [6c Ts 5d Ad]
butfer: calls $1
RUUD BOY: folds
grotto6: folds
sheerluck: folds
__data__: raises to $4.50
YoMamaJo: folds
Youngtubs: folds
sirus: folds
Youngtubs leaves the table
Claudius2: folds
stpboy77: calls $3.50
butfer: calls $3.50

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FLOP

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[As Ac Jc]
stpboy77: checks
butfer: checks
__data__: bets $14
stpboy77: calls $14
butfer: folds

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TURN

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[As Ac Jc][8s]
stpboy77: bets $42
__data__: raises to $163 and is all-in
stpboy77: is all-in $34.75
Returned uncalled bets $86.25 to __data__

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RIVER

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[As Ac Jc 8s][Qc]

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SHOW DOWN

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__data__: shows [2c Jh Ah 3s] (A Full House, Aces full of Jacks)
stpboy77: shows [6c Ts 5d Ad] (Three of a kind, Aces, Queen high)
__data__ collected $192.50 from Main pot

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SUMMARY

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Total pot $195.50 Main pot $192.50 Rake $3
Board [As Ac Jc 8s Qc]
Seat 1: RUUD BOY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: grotto6 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: sheerluck folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: __data__ showed [2c Jh Ah 3s] and won ($192.50) with HI: A Full House, Aces full of Jacks
Seat 5: YoMamaJo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: sirus (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Claudius2 (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: stpboy77 (big blind) lost
Seat 10: butfer folded on the Flop

stp

ScottyZ

I'll give this one a whirl.

Giant disclaimer: I've never played a (cash game) hand of PL Omaha8 in my entire life.

I like folding better on every street.

Pre-flop you have no low, and only a single-suited nut flush draw. This hand can't stand a MP pre-flop raise from the BB even against the most aggressive opponent.

On the flop, you have trip Aces with no kicker(s), and so, no over-full redraw. Your initially poor low draw is both counterfeited and runner-runner. This is a dubious holding.

What hands could your opponent have here? If he liked his hand for low, he probably has something like A23x or A24x. Why would he bet the flop in last position instead of taking off a free card for low? Because he likes his x card.

Even if he made a loose pre-flop raise with a bare A2-high-high and still likes his hand for a flop bet, he probably does have the AJ2x combination. Would he really bet the flop into 2 enemies with a weaker holding than this?

If he liked his hand for high only, he probably still has the case Ace with good kickers, or something like KQJT with 2 clubs (since he came out betting the flop). The latter is probably about the best case for you, but you're still not even in super shape against it. And again, I'd be surprised if he would pass on the free card with only a draw.

When the turn comes a brick (but also low), your opponent raising you says that he either currently has the nuts for high and wants to get full value from you if you are now trying to spike a low, or has the nut (or good) low draw himself with strong potential for high (e.g. AK23 with the nut club draw). Unfortunately, he actually had both.

The only alternatives I can see here is that your opponent is either on a stone cold bluff into a scary board, or is grossly overvaluing something like A234 on the flop and turn.

ScottyZ

Chugs

I really don't like calling with this hand for a raise ... and you just witnessed the exact flop that would kill you. Really for your starting hand to be a winning one against almost any raising hand was really tough. while you have three cards to a low, the 56 aren't exactly premium low cards. You have the single nut flush draw and 56 for possible straight connectors.

Once you saw the flop i can see how it was more and more difficult to lay the hand down, but you really shouldn't have even been seeing a flop in a pot raised the max (he made a full pot sized raise) with those cards.

Hork42

I'd fold preflop. The hand has very little high card strength. It is not coordinated and if you draw to a low, it is not going to be the nut low.

Once you're in the hand, it's difficult to get away from, but I think you have to facing another potsized bet on the flop. Chances are he raised with an ace preflop.. all he needs is one of his kickers to pair the board along the way to have you beat. You're behind, on a draw and really don't know where you stand.. Get away from it.

hork.

professor

Folding preflop to that raise seems right to me. Going low your
hand is not great unless the flop comes 234, and going high your kicker
is weak if your ace hits. Really, you need to see your flush draw on
the flop, without a paired board. Since you've only got one way to
"get there" (instead of the *three ways* you'd like for a raising hand)
I'd only see the flop for cheap cheap cheap with this hand.

stpboy

Ok guys, point taken lol. I should have folded preflop and postflop and post-post flop etc.... Thanks for the input. I can take two positives from this hand and this session 1) I only came to the table with $25 and built it to $119 before loosing it all 2) I too realize that I have the capability to make "monkey brain" mistakes but my instincts were right and that IS a positive even though I didn't follow them. I guess I have to learn to trust my instincts even when the monkeys are screaming "call call call!!!". I have not played a lot of Omaha but that is no excuse, this one is easier then I originally thought.

Thanks for the replys, appreciated.

stp