133 and counting . . .
Dammit . . . I just heard that we lost another soldier to an IED. It hurts every damn time, but moreso at this time of the year . . .
I support our Forces, but for this patriotic Canadian 2011 cannot come soon enough. Our troops have carried more than their fair share of the war. Sadly, this trooper will not be the last one we lose. RIP
I support our Forces, but for this patriotic Canadian 2011 cannot come soon enough. Our troops have carried more than their fair share of the war. Sadly, this trooper will not be the last one we lose. RIP
Comments
I've heard too many times that no one can win a war in Afghanistan. If you ignore history.....
Bring them home.
Our troops are tasked to Afghanistan until 2011. They come home when the mission is done, because that is a soldier's job. If asked, they will almost universally declare a desire to complete their mission. That's a good enough reason for me to let them see this through to it's conclusion. But, as I said, the day cannot come soon enough for me.
Oh yes, we should not mix politics and war. WTF? I support our troops (as I know that is the only battle cry that matters). But why is it always verboten to discuss the questionable ideals that made the powers that be send our finest over to fight an unwinable war?
Yes their mission ends 2011, and yes they want to complete their mission, but this is very close to mission impossible and I doubt many of them would say no if the plugged were to be pulled early. 1 was too many. 133 is getting shameful and I want it to end.
The Afghan war was/is a completely justified mission. Whether the mission today still reflects the initial concept that the government of Canada had in mind can be debated ad nauseum. The military does not make policy, it carries out the policy our government sets forth. In a proper scenario, the government sets forth the objective and the rules of engagement, and then lets the professionals get on with the task at hand. All too often, that does not happen. That is what I think has befallen our troops in Afghanistan. Namely, that political considerations have altered the mission objectives to the point that the military may no longer be the proper instrument to use over there.
Regardless, our Forces have been set a task and, as always, the response has been "aye, ready aye". From conversations with people who have been over there, I can tell you that very few of the soldiers in Afghanistan would choose to come home before the specified end of their tours. Simply put, they were ordered to do a job, and soldiers obey their orders.
Now, we here at home can debate the efficacy of their orders until we are blue in the face. But each one of those 133 fallen soldiers volunteered to serve this country, and if necessary give their life for it. Who are we to cheapen their sacrifice by, as you put it, "pulling the plug"? I know a few members of my former Reserve regiment that are leaving for Afghanistan in the new year. I know for a fact that each one of them is looking forward to going, and is glad that the government did not cut the Afghan mission short. They are proud soldiers, eager to put their training to the test. Your comments do them a disservice.
Mods, can you please lock this thread. It has gone off on a tangent I did not want.
Mole, if you'd like to debate this issue further, please start a new thread.
I have numerous friends who served at different times and I'm quite sure there isn't any better combination of ability, compassion and determination than shown by Canadian forces around the world.
The fact that I didn't want them to go and want them home now is in no way sullying their honour and you're out of line implying it.
You can wave your flag.....it's the same one I do.......we both want them home safe the difference in the means to that end is not as big as you're making it.
Done
Myself and everyone I know in the Army who has been there, would go back (and some of us have) again and again. For every 1 who decides its not for them, 5 are waiting to take their place. None of these soldiers are "war junkies" but its what we do. Sitting on the sidelines suck. The average Afghan wants us there, the Taliban doesn't, thats reality. Unfortunately the average Afghan can't stop these butchers, we are at least willing to try!! I have lost friends there, knowing what I know now, I'd do it all over again.
"The only necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing"
My questioning goes to the people who put them there in a peace keeping role that has morphed into one of the more dangerous deployments with little chance for success based on hundreds of years of history.
I thought this was explained before.
I replied initially because I just wanted to state our point of view, however the above statement is absolutely wrong. Government says mission ends 2011, so be it. Do we want it to end without seeing the Afghan people able to take care of themselves? No.
I was one of the first into Kandahar in 2005 when PM Martin sent us there. We knew it was not a Peacekeeping mission (we hate those) and were glad. We know the history of Afghanistan, and have no illusions of how tough it is. To us, when the Afghan Army can fight alone (they are getting close) and the Afghan police are professionalized (still a bit off but getting closer) the mission will be a success.
What surprises most people I talk to is not one soldier I know would want to be anywhere else but Kandahar. Good soldiers, who in the past quit our army and went south for "action" are now staying in our army. We don't join the army to peacekeep, fight fires, etc, we joined for adventure, action etc. What surprises people even more, there is no shortage of recruits, infantry recruitment is actually up since we went to Kandahar, and these kids (I'm 43, they're all kids) know what they're getting into.
Last transmission on this subject from me.
Perhaps the statement you refer to was improperly conveyed.
My statement is that if the Government tomorrow decided the loss of life of Canadian troops was not worth the potential benefits, and ended the mission earlier (thus ordering troops home in essence) not many would stay and fight on their own accord.
So are you saying that if on Dec 31st, 2011 Afghanistan is still a quagmire, we will besmirch our forces by bringing them home before it's "mission accomplished"?
1. Your right, none would stay to fight on their own (we're highly disciplined and follow orders), however a significant number would resign and join the Americans or Brits if govt ended mission early. We would also feel let down. We do not like the notion of spilling blood just to cut and run early.
2. No we would not feel besmirched in 2011. It may sound like symmantics but its not the same feeling as cutting and running early. Its an end-date that gives us time to prep the Afghan army and police. Will we still lose good troops who'll join the US and Brits, yes, probably some of our best.
And this ends my input to this thread