Full Tilt law suit

AcidJoe

TMZ.com is reporting that two poker players have sued online poker room Full Tilt Poker for $80,000.
Lary Kennedy and Greg Omotoy claim they won $80,000 and that the funds were confiscated.
The company claims that plaintiffs used an automated play functions called "robots" instead of playing the game themselves. Since using robots violates Full Tilt's rules, the site's owners confiscated more than $80,000.
From TMZ.com:
"There are other gripes as well in the lawsuit, filed today in L.A. County Superior Court, including an allegation that fulltilitpoker.com manipulates the game through the use of robots of its own so it becomes more a game of luck than skill which is outlawed in California."
Chris "Jesus" Ferguson, Howard Lederer, Phil Ivey and Mike Matusow all have equity interest in Full Tilt Poker.
Phil Ivey will be playing at the 2009 World Series of Poker final table in November.
The link is below:
Full Tilt Poker, Phil Ivey Face Another Lawsuit | Gambling911.com

Hobbes

Time to grab my tinfoil hat

Milo

Hobbes wrote: »

Time to grab my tinfoil hat

But I thought that Captain Chaos was immune to that sort of crap?

philliivey

they will win.........

compuease

philliivey wrote: »

they will win.........

And.... Is our own Phil Ivey a bot..?

Graham.... ban or not?

philliivey

compuease wrote: »

And.... Is our own Phil Ivey a bot..?

Graham.... ban or not?

haha

no i am saying the stupid people always win, and or full tilt will throw money their way to just go away.

moose

pffft....as if the LA County court will has jurisdiction over Full Tilt poker. Joke.

Milo

It'll be interesting to see if FTP does pay them off . . .

I am curious about the allegations of jacking up the "luck" factor, though . . .

jacktenoff

Milo wrote: »

jacking up the "luck" factor,

For a long time I've felt pokerstars does this.

BlondeFish

compuease wrote: »

And.... Is our own Phil Ivey a bot..?
Graham.... ban or not?

But I play like a robot all the time!

Graham

A bit more info from yet another "credible source": (For the record: Gambling911, TMZ and Neverwin Poker should never be taken as credible news sources. They are gossip columns.)

Some of you might remember "Sillysal" from 2+2. She showed up on 2+2 in February, 2008, claiming that Full Tilt wrongly accused her of botting. Full Tilt closed her account, took her money, and redistributed some of it to past opponents she beat.

She filed a lawsuit against Full Tilt and all of its owners in a California court today.

Sillysal, who played on Full Tilt as "Pokergirl z" and "greggo777", maintained her innocence. She swore up and down that Full Tilt wrongly "convicted" her of using bots. She insisted that Full Tilt simply took the word of fellow players making the accusations, rather than performing an unbiased investigation.

At the time (before I was banned from 2+2), I followed the story closely. I had always been fascinated by the "bot" situation involving heads-up limit hold 'em players. In fact, I strongly believe that I lost thousands of dollars to bots in various heads up games over the years. Some sites, such as Absolute Poker, Pokerroom, and Ultimatebet, were known to be extremely lenient with bots, pretty much completely ignoring the problem. Others, such as Full Tilt, were said to be overaggressive in removing bots, perhaps ensnaring innocent people in the process.

I took particular interest in this case because I had some history with Sillysal.

Sillysal was not my friend. In fact, I didn't like her at all. We had a lot of arguments regarding the "rights" to a particular heads up table, and when someone is expected to leave. The details of our feud are unimportant now, but suffice to say that I played a lot of heads up against Sillysal on several sites, and I knew her style of play quite well.

Now she was accused of being a bot.

"Could it be?", I wondered. "Was I actually playing a bot all of this time?"

Part of me wanted it to be true, since I didn't care for her. However, I tried to reserve judgment for awhile, and watched the 2+2 thread unfold. She had the crowd on her side initially, but lost nearly everyone's support when an additional fact came out:

Sillysal had been multi-accounting.

She wasn't multi-accounting in the ZeeJustin cheating way. She was only playing heads up tables, and simply used a second account to get additional action. A bit unethical? Yes. However, that doesn't constitute cheating, and it had nothing to do with botting. However, this fact turned the 2+2 nerds against her, as they felt she was withholding important information back, and they wondered what else she wasn't being honest about.

I waited for some of the smoke to clear, then jumped into the fray myself. She and I went back and forth several times. I was trying to be as neutral as possible, but she wasn't making it easy. Finally, though, after enough facts emerged, I came to a conclusion:

Sillysal was innocent.

See, I had played Sillysal on many other poker sites in the past. I knew her style. I knew her tendency to tilt at times. I even knew her habit of bolting from the table abruptly after taking a few bad beats or coolers in a row, whether she was winning or losing. All of these very un-bot-like characteristics were still present in Pokergirl z's game on Full Tilt. I know, because I played Pokergirl z a number of times on Full Tilt. It was definitely the same player, and it wasn't likely to be a bot.

Also, unlike a bot, Pokergirl z was game selective at times. While she was willing to take on competent players at times, she would often sit out and type "no more" if she determined the opponent was really good -- whether she was winning or losing.

There were a few strikes against Sillysal in the court of public opinion.

She was from the Los Angeles area, yet none of the poker community there had ever met her.

She hadn't been up front about her multi-accounting using greggo777.

Her messages on 2+2 were often cryptic and lacking enough detail to be judged credible by certain people, and she would act offended if people asked for more.

Worst yet, Full Tilt hired Darse Billings, a well known bot programmer from the University of Alberta, to analyze the data on Sillysal's play. Billings concluded that, due to "timing issues", Sillysal was indeed guilty. This was the final blow against her in the eyes of 2+2.

However, I can tell you from personal experience playing her that Full Tilt is full of shit on this one. There were no "timing issues". I played with her, and she acted just like any human opponent would. Sometimes she played fast, sometimes she'd slow down when it came to a big decision, and sometimes she played a bit slower. If they claim that she always acted within a very specific amount of time, they are flat out lying. Other than the "timing" matter, Full Tilt will not cite any other evidence as to how they "know" she used bot software.

This woman did not use a bot. There are a number of past heads-up opponents whom I could easily believe were bots, but she is not one of them.

I have a friend who mostly plays heads up limit hold 'em, who has even more history playing Sillysal than I do. Like me, she also did not like Sillysal personally, but also agrees that it is highly unlikely that she used a bot.

Sillysal and I no longer dislike each other. We are not close friends, but we get along fairly well now. However, I am not posting about this because I'm trying to help a friend. I'm posting this because I think it's a terrible thing that Full Tilt has confiscated an innocent player's money.

What about the endorsement of Darse Billings regarding Full Tilt's accusation? That's the strangest part. I doubt that Billings was in on any sort of lie/cover-up, but it's quite possible that he was given hand-selected, doctored, or flawed data to begin with.

The lawsuit, which I will receive a copy of on Monday, is interesting in itself. Part of the lawsuit makes the claim that Full Tilt operated bots on their own, in order to both earn extra money and keep games running. That is, Full Tilt is accused of using bots as their own shills. If true, this would be highly unethical. Supposedly there is evidence and inside information supporting this, but we'll have to wait and see.

A mediation between Sillysal and Full Tilt took place a few weeks ago, but neither party could come to terms.

Two other lawsuits have been filed against Full Tilt poker. One involves the allegedly improper appropriation of Clone Gowen's ownership in the company, and the other involves the allegedly wrongful firing of super-utility-man Jason "JDN" Newitt. Neither has been settled.

philliivey

hmmmmmmmmmmm they did not come to terms, well they are fecked now, it may cost them alot if full tilt goes after them for costs now, unlike here in crappy Canada where you can't do that.