Final Table Fumble
I wrote this up as a blog for some of the newer poker players at BSPT and I am too lazy to rewrite it but the hand details are there. I am so undecided on this hand it hurts. Had it went my way, I would be singing a different tune, but I still think I might have taken a gamble I didn't need to. Wouldn't mind a second opinion or 2. I asked my 25-50 PLO friend, he would play it like I did, but I am so pissed at myself.........I did link the dissusion back to here in the SNG thread too. Here is the hand.
I'll do a little better intro later, but I thought it only fitting my first VIP blog at Big Slick would be about "Big Slick".
It is one of those hands you love and hate. I'll take it all day, but as one of my poker mentor says, "to win a tourney you have to win with AK and beat AK. Last night I played a final table hand that I thought might be fun to break down, because it really defines the whole poker cliche of "it depends".
So here is the set up: 42 entry home game, $30+$5 bounties. Final table with 9 players left and 5 spots paying.
I have about 75k in chips or about 1/4 of the chips in play. My "M" is 25 or well in the green. I am on the button. Player A raises the 1000/2000 blinds from under the gun to 5k. Player B handles her cards a little carelessly and I see she holds an ACE. Player B ponders shoving with about 18k behind after she decides to just call the 5k. 2 other players call the 5k and the highjack, the only player with a stack that concerns me just calls the 5k.
So now we have 28k (blinds fold) in the pot pre-flop. I have AK in position. Do I just call? I don't like that option, there are too many players and hands in the pot. Do I as chip leader fold AK preflop? I can't see that option yet either.
What I do know is this, Player A, I have been playing with for about 2 hours, he is solid and not afraid to 2.5 bet for blinds pre-flop. He is also playing a little passivelly against me as I have recently trapped him in two huge pots to take away his chip lead. He is now average stacked at best. I am not worried about him. Player B is dominated and her stack can't do much damage if she 3 outs me. Players C and D are pretty passive, very likely to fold and neither can damage my stack significantly. Player E, the high jack is a very solid player and has chips.
He also know how to use them, so other than having the big stack on his left, I see no reason he wouldn't reraise the pot pre with a top teir hand. He is also a very strong odds based player.
I make the decision to move all in, putting their tourney life on the line, should they decide to race. I don't mind a call from anybody but the 35k stack. I don't think he will call me as he has the chips to be patient and again, since he understands odds and math, I expected him to raise and not just call if he had a strong hand. I increase my stack by 30% plus just by taking this pot pre.
It quickly folds around to him. He tanks for along time and works it all out. He can also assume while the shorter stacks all have decent holdings, alot of overcards are now in the muck. I have been playing with him since the begining of the game and this is the first time I have moved all in pre. Add to that, I only announce the all in, I don't double hand push to indicate strength (oops). He mutters and mumbles "guess you have to gamble sometimes to win these, I hope you hold AK. I call."
I tell him he pegged it and we table our hands. He holds 66. I am uncomfortable now, as I know alot of my outs are indeed in the muck, but I still hold a premium hand and we are a coin flip. Win this pot, I have half the chips in play and have eliminated one of the stronger players on the table. As it played out, he doubles up.
So should I fold AK? Was this a terrible play? Now I turned over the chip lead to a player who can use them well.
In the end, it is he who eliminates me, 2 spots from the money, after 6 hours of play.
I am 60/40 about how I played this. 60% hates it, but not because I lost with AK. The cards really don't matter and I should know this. Fold AK? In this situation I should have or been satisfied to go into a flop with position.
Before final started, I had planned to use a "non-card reliant SNG strategy". So back to the game. If you have taken the time to read the strategy, you will realize I have no reason to gamble here. I have more than enough chips to just abuse my opponents around the bubble and I should be able to pick that 30% increase with little resistance if I choose my opponents and spots wisely, not so much my cards.
Now, Do I hate the infamous Big Slick race after this hand? Do I find the excuse, "I can't fold there!" or "I had AK"? Of course right after the hand I am frazzled and yes there are alot of situations where I would race with it again. But this shouldn't have been one.
I was one of the stronger players with alot of chips, then I played a Level 2 thinking hand at best.
So should I hate his call? Nah, Much respect. He is getting almost three to 1 on a hand he knows he 50/50 to win. Very ballsy and when the board flopped 10 10x, he had to sweat. If there hadn't been so many players in with hands that where obviously just almost good enough, I would say it was a loose call. He also worked out that I knew that.
That said, at this point, I would have played most pocket pairs to JJ the same way in this spot. Had I double hand pushed or just raised half my stack, he may have backed off. He had witnessed me just call with 10,10 and fold an overpair to him on his set, so he knew alot about how I would play these hands and try to control the pot.
In my opinion he applyed some level 3 thinking to work this out. He knew, I knew his hand wasn't great but that mine was also good but should be no better than a coin flip.
But we where talking AK right? Sort of..........
Bottom line, I had no real excuse not to make the money here, what I was dealt should not mattered much.
Thoughts?
I'll do a little better intro later, but I thought it only fitting my first VIP blog at Big Slick would be about "Big Slick".
It is one of those hands you love and hate. I'll take it all day, but as one of my poker mentor says, "to win a tourney you have to win with AK and beat AK. Last night I played a final table hand that I thought might be fun to break down, because it really defines the whole poker cliche of "it depends".
So here is the set up: 42 entry home game, $30+$5 bounties. Final table with 9 players left and 5 spots paying.
I have about 75k in chips or about 1/4 of the chips in play. My "M" is 25 or well in the green. I am on the button. Player A raises the 1000/2000 blinds from under the gun to 5k. Player B handles her cards a little carelessly and I see she holds an ACE. Player B ponders shoving with about 18k behind after she decides to just call the 5k. 2 other players call the 5k and the highjack, the only player with a stack that concerns me just calls the 5k.
So now we have 28k (blinds fold) in the pot pre-flop. I have AK in position. Do I just call? I don't like that option, there are too many players and hands in the pot. Do I as chip leader fold AK preflop? I can't see that option yet either.
What I do know is this, Player A, I have been playing with for about 2 hours, he is solid and not afraid to 2.5 bet for blinds pre-flop. He is also playing a little passivelly against me as I have recently trapped him in two huge pots to take away his chip lead. He is now average stacked at best. I am not worried about him. Player B is dominated and her stack can't do much damage if she 3 outs me. Players C and D are pretty passive, very likely to fold and neither can damage my stack significantly. Player E, the high jack is a very solid player and has chips.
He also know how to use them, so other than having the big stack on his left, I see no reason he wouldn't reraise the pot pre with a top teir hand. He is also a very strong odds based player.
I make the decision to move all in, putting their tourney life on the line, should they decide to race. I don't mind a call from anybody but the 35k stack. I don't think he will call me as he has the chips to be patient and again, since he understands odds and math, I expected him to raise and not just call if he had a strong hand. I increase my stack by 30% plus just by taking this pot pre.
It quickly folds around to him. He tanks for along time and works it all out. He can also assume while the shorter stacks all have decent holdings, alot of overcards are now in the muck. I have been playing with him since the begining of the game and this is the first time I have moved all in pre. Add to that, I only announce the all in, I don't double hand push to indicate strength (oops). He mutters and mumbles "guess you have to gamble sometimes to win these, I hope you hold AK. I call."
I tell him he pegged it and we table our hands. He holds 66. I am uncomfortable now, as I know alot of my outs are indeed in the muck, but I still hold a premium hand and we are a coin flip. Win this pot, I have half the chips in play and have eliminated one of the stronger players on the table. As it played out, he doubles up.
So should I fold AK? Was this a terrible play? Now I turned over the chip lead to a player who can use them well.
In the end, it is he who eliminates me, 2 spots from the money, after 6 hours of play.
I am 60/40 about how I played this. 60% hates it, but not because I lost with AK. The cards really don't matter and I should know this. Fold AK? In this situation I should have or been satisfied to go into a flop with position.
Before final started, I had planned to use a "non-card reliant SNG strategy". So back to the game. If you have taken the time to read the strategy, you will realize I have no reason to gamble here. I have more than enough chips to just abuse my opponents around the bubble and I should be able to pick that 30% increase with little resistance if I choose my opponents and spots wisely, not so much my cards.
Now, Do I hate the infamous Big Slick race after this hand? Do I find the excuse, "I can't fold there!" or "I had AK"? Of course right after the hand I am frazzled and yes there are alot of situations where I would race with it again. But this shouldn't have been one.
I was one of the stronger players with alot of chips, then I played a Level 2 thinking hand at best.
So should I hate his call? Nah, Much respect. He is getting almost three to 1 on a hand he knows he 50/50 to win. Very ballsy and when the board flopped 10 10x, he had to sweat. If there hadn't been so many players in with hands that where obviously just almost good enough, I would say it was a loose call. He also worked out that I knew that.
That said, at this point, I would have played most pocket pairs to JJ the same way in this spot. Had I double hand pushed or just raised half my stack, he may have backed off. He had witnessed me just call with 10,10 and fold an overpair to him on his set, so he knew alot about how I would play these hands and try to control the pot.
In my opinion he applyed some level 3 thinking to work this out. He knew, I knew his hand wasn't great but that mine was also good but should be no better than a coin flip.
But we where talking AK right? Sort of..........
Bottom line, I had no real excuse not to make the money here, what I was dealt should not mattered much.
Thoughts?
Comments
Read up to the preflop action and stopped...but I move in everytime there.
don't like the 66 call....don't like flipping (at best) when I don't have to....and he could be easily crushed here as well
One of those moves where you shove to push the small stacks to a decision for their tournament and hope you hold. I think any pair calls there knowing you are bullying the table so really at worst case you are 50/50 or better...
No biggie, variance happens...