Water Heater; Electric or Gas?

STR82ACESTR82ACE
in Off Topic Lounge
Well, looks like my hand is being forced to replace my existing electric water heater as there seems to be a leak on the bottom somewhere I can't see or get at. Regardless, it needs to be replaced, and wouldn't you know it...the warranty expired a year ago. I own the current heater, and is not a rental nor leased.

If I'm going to replace the tank, I thought maybe it would be time to at least consider switching to natural gas vs electric, but I honestly don't know the pros and cons of each. The media seems to think gas is the way to go, but these newer high efficiency electric water heaters seem competitive as well.

I need to consider the entire cost of the installation. Electric is already available obviously, and I already have a gas line to the house for the bbq and fireplace (that's it, just those two items run on gas). I'll have to get quotes for installation for both obviously, but I'm wondering if anyone here made the switch and what your opinions of each are/were.

Items I need to consider are:
1 - long term cost. as I understand, gas is much cheaper yearly than electric and heats up faster
2 - installation costs. If I decide to go gas, what can I expect the costs be ballpark? Will this be added to my gas bill or do I pay the contractor separately?
3 - I'm sure I'm forgetting something else, so anything else I should keep in mind?

Appreciate any thoughts anyone has, especially those in the HVAC or plumbing sectors.

Comments

  • DennisGDennisG
    I run a propane hot water tank...it makes hot water fast, never ever run out it seems...and I can decide how hot I want it from the tank (probably can on electric too, don't know) But I can bring that water out near boiling if I so choose.

    What I don't like, is the cost of gas in the winter. Rates can go through the roof (out here). If you are locked in at a cheap price, then that isn't an issue. The only other aspect you need to look at when installing, is exhaust (mainly)and fresh air intake (need some..not a lot). If it is in a location that this will easily be installed, sweet...if not, remember to have that cost looked at as well.

    I am debating whether or not to go back to a propane dryer myself....
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Propane isn't an option to consider. I did have my gas at a fixed rate, but damn if it still don't keep moving upwards anyways.

    What about TANKLESS systems? Fairly new, and I found a lot of pros and cons, mostly due to unit and installation price though...apparently three to four times the cost of a tank system.
  • Hellmuth's MoleHellmuth's Mole
    Definitely check out one demand water heaters or "tankless". Depending on your occupancy it's a very good option that can payback in efficiency quicker than you would expect.
  • ReefAquariumReefAquarium
    Gas costs less than electric, plus it heats up faster.
  • MiloMilo
    Gas >>> Electric, AJ. My best friend is a plumber. Will talk to him about "tankless" heaters and get back to you with his thoughts. We were talking about them before, but I cannot remember the conclusions.
  • DennisGDennisG
    STR82ACE wrote: »
    Propane isn't an option to consider. I did have my gas at a fixed rate, but damn if it still don't keep moving upwards anyways.

    What about TANKLESS systems? Fairly new, and I found a lot of pros and cons, mostly due to unit and installation price though...apparently three to four times the cost of a tank system.

    The difference between propane and natural gas is a fitting. Same unit..different fitting...so yeah..need an exhaust outlet, and some intake air. With an old house like mine, and all the air leaks, the intake wasn't an issue..didn't create a draft. Drafts already exist..lol
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    I was thinking about changing over to tankless but the show stopper is the water pressure. I like a strong shower in the morning. Got me one of those Russian shower heads that blasts the water.

    Also, if you have a finished basement, some new water heaters need larger piping so they might need to take down some drywall in the ceiling depending on what route you take.
  • MiloMilo
    Just got off the phone with my buddy. He recommends going with gas, rather than tankless. HEre is a breakdown on the conversation:
    Costs
    Residential Gas - $600.00
    Residential Tankless - $1,500.00

    Water pressure, as has been noted, is an issue as well. My buddy's opinion is that the added initial outlay is not justified by the savings over the life expectancy of current units on the market. Hope this helps.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Never thought about pressure being an issue with tankless, but it makes sense.

    Biggest problem I have is to revamp everything to gas when the electric is already in place. I'll have to give it some thought, but I'll have to choose very soon.

    Thanks for the info Milo, appreciated much.
  • moosemoose
    I forget what I paid to have my gas dryer hooked up. Wasn't much, maybe $100. Seems silly to pay a monthly account fee ~$25 when you are hardly using any gas. Since you already have an account I would go gas.

    With my gas dryer and gas water heater I used $12.21 in gas last month. Peanuts.
  • MiloMilo
    One other point in favour of gas, the more appliances you have that are gas, the better your rate (marginally, but it still helps).
  • IneedanickIneedanick
    How do you heat your home? If/when your current system breaks done, would it make sense to switch to a gas furnace, in which case adding gas lines now would help?

    Whatever you do, be sure to look into various government rebates. If the efficiency increases, you should qualify for something (eg. ecoenergy grants, ecoENERGY Retrofit – Homes Grants).
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Electric heat, no duct work at all in the house, and the cost to switch heat over would be much too high to consider at this time.

    Thanks for the rebate site, I'll look into it.
  • MidnightMikeMidnightMike
    Tankless on demand boiler system is the best AJ, providing you intend to stay in your house long enough that the install cost offsets the energy savings costs. If you would like a reputable contractor let me know. I will give you the phone number of the one I use exclusively on all my projects, if you need i would also be happy to co ordinate the scheduling for free. Call it the ChingHill friends and family rate. He's a local Brampton resident and he provides 24hour service if ever needed. The cost of the product and install is approximately as listed above $1500.

    Mike
    Nadalin Gunn & Associates
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    MidnightMike wrote: »
    Tankless on demand boiler system is the best AJ, providing you intend to stay in your house long enough that the install cost offsets the energy savings costs. If you would like a reputable contractor let me know. I will give you the phone number of the one I use exclusively on all my projects, if you need i would also be happy to co ordinate the scheduling for free. Call it the ChingHill friends and family rate. He's a local Brampton resident and he provides 24hour service if ever needed. The cost of the product and install is approximately as listed above $1500.

    Mike
    Nadalin Gunn & Associates

    Thanks Mike...what about the above statements concerning pressure though? I would hate to put in a tankless system and find out I can't get hot water for my shower upstairs in the morning.
  • MidnightMikeMidnightMike
    i had a huge pressure issue at my old house in weston, toronto, it was due to galvanized pipes and the crud that builds up in them. There is a trick that good installers are aware of and for lack of knowing the proper technical term lets just say its called "jacking your meter" its something they can do that increases the pressure and thus the flow. I wouldnt expect that your house should have an issue and i would be suprised if it did as long as you have a 3/4 inch copper line coming into the house. I will make inquiries for ya none the less though. Darren lives in flower town area of brampton and the houses in that area i think are about the same as yours. So he should be able to tell me off the top of his head.
  • MidnightMikeMidnightMike
    STR82ACE wrote: »
    Thanks Mike...what about the above statements concerning pressure though? I would hate to put in a tankless system and find out I can't get hot water for my shower upstairs in the morning.


    All work is quaranteed aswell, and by ppl who stand behind their work, including myself.

    Besides you live far to close to me and the last thing i want is you showing up at my house in the morning for a shower, cuz yours doesnt work properly. :)
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    MidnightMike wrote: »
    All work is quaranteed aswell, and by ppl who stand behind their work, including myself.

    Besides you live far to close to me and the last thing i want is you showing up at my house in the morning for a shower, cuz yours doesnt work properly. :)

    And there better be clean towels too!!!
    ;)

    Appreciate any info you can give me Mike. I would much rather install a gas unit either way, just a matter of how much it will cost and what I can afford right now. Worse comes to worse, I may have to rent an electric model to tide me over until I can afford the conversion.
  • MidnightMikeMidnightMike
    let me make a call AJ. There might be a rebate for the change over. i suspect you need this immediately and that is the true issue. I offer 30 days payment for all clients if that helps any. Pm me and we can chat if ya like or call me at

    Nadalin Gunn & Assoc.

    905 793 1771
  • MidnightMikeMidnightMike
    made a call, sounds like you need a direct vented type unit, which is not gonna offer any rebates. I would recommend you do a simple swap out with your electric unit. I hate to say it, but in your home it may cost from $1500 (actual unit cost of direct fired boiler) to an installation cost of $2500

    So i respectfully would advise you to go with a replacement electric unit, unless you feel you can make up the additional costs with savings offsets.

    In which case i will be happy to help further.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Thanks Mike, that's been the general consensus from everyone I've talked to as well. I would need a high efficiency direct vent unit, which is much more money, as well as the gas pipe layout from one end of the house to the other. It seems at this time, it isn't the most cost effective route, but I still have someone coming over tonight to just inspect and verify everything to me. I'll make my decision after that, but it looks more and more like I will be staying with electric due to the higher costs for installation.
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    Water heater just tanked today. Hopefully I can find a new motor or Im looking at a new one. Probably just rent from Direct Energy. Had so many problems with the last one, which we own. AJ, are you happy with the new one?
  • MiloMilo
    Motor? Electric water heater?
  • kwstevekwsteve
    Just replaced my electric a month ago. Cost me $890 total for unit and installation, 8 year warranty. Took them less than 3 hrs and they took the old one away.
  • jontmjontm
    Journeyman Plumber/Gasfitter with some extra HVAC design courses

    Cliffs; electric is 100% efficient as no heat escapes up the stack. Any that is lost through the jacket goes into your house.

    Tankless/instantaneous are great, hear they keep up with demand quite well if sized properly, but they need annual maintenance or the heat exchangers calcify/clog and performance goes way down

    Conventional, really they are not bad, quick to install and cheap to replace as compared to trying to retrofit a high efficiency with PVC flue, especially if there are interlocks and dampers involved.

    As for motor, didnt read thread but assuming it was a ventor on a direct vent gas?

    Shouldnt be too bad to replace?
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