Could you fold this?

Standard home game. $1/$2 Blinds NLHE $50 unlimited rebuys. 5 handed

I am hold KJ suited in BB. Everyone limps in and I raise it to $5 which has been the standard preflop raise. Everyone calls. Flop comes:

J J 2 (rainbow)

SB checks. I bet $5. MP reraises to $20 total. Everyone folds to me and I snap reraise all-in to $130 total ($20 + $110). MP goes into the tank.

My image to this point has been pretty tight and I am up in the game about $80 but I am known to gamble/steal and am capable of making this move with QQ, KK or AA and maybe even AK. MP is similarly tight and is the big stack (has me well covered), his re-raise told me he likely has a J or maybe KK or AA. So I am fearing AJ or possibly 22.

He eventually calls and shows QJ. My hand holds up.

Afterwards, I say that it was an unlucky hand and its virtually impossible to fold QJ under that situation. But he says that he knew I had a J and could have laid it down rather than call. But my feeling is that in most situations, its almost impossible to lay that down.

So my question, could you have laid it down?

Comments

  • This is a cooler hand totally...based on effective stacks I am not folding this ever. There are really only two hands that beat me here based on your image (AJ, KJ), I discount 22 right away because if you say you are tight I do not see you making a move with 22 out of the blinds, nor do I see you leading into a flop. I most likely give you credit for a pair (say 88-10s, maybe QQ-AA if that...)

    If you just flat my raise rather than shipping it in instantly I slow down right away because I give you credit for a jack but because you ship it in I can't give you credit for a J (as in why are you trying to push me out unless you know I have a hand I can't fold and you are overbetting the pot hoping to induce the call)

    It was well played on your end to recognize MP had a J based on his re-raise as he most likely put you on an over pair and figured you wouldn't be folding.
  • What he said.....deeper stacked is the only time you can look at folding.
  • Okay let it be known that I am the one GQUEUE is referring to and yes I had JQ. The reasons I felt that it was a bad call on my part to call the all in move are as follows:

    1. We were playing until a specific time and there was only about 30 minutes left to play.

    2. GQUEUE has had a few bad beats over the past weeks and was coming on strong this game. I felt he wasn't about to give up his current pot based on the slight chance I had something other then a J. (I agree he has been known to gamble with nothing but in this case I felt I read him properly).

    3. The all in move represented to me that he had a J and I assumed a high kicker.

    Why did I call? Because only two hands were going to beat me - JK or JA given the flop and I could possibly hit on the turn or river. I had a gut feel I was beat but made a dumb call by calling the bet.

    I will give GQUEUE credit for the take as I thought it was a very good move on his part. Although I had a good hand, I still felt I could have laid it down without too much regret.
  • CURC wrote: »
    Why did I call? Because only two hands were going to beat me - JK or JA given the flop and I could possibly hit on the turn or river.
    But that's my point..I don't think it was a dumb call, I think you either put me on a J or not (and I agree, it would appear I likely had a J), but regardless, you have the 3rd kicker, I could have J10, J9 or even J8 and I might still make that move. So out of the range of hands I could have, you have 3 you can beat (J8, J9 or J10), one that ties (J Q), and 2 that you lose to (AJ, KJ), plus you also lead if I have a pocket pair or pure bluff.

    My point here is that it is a very tough lay down, I don't think anyone reasonably lays it down especially when they are the big stack and they have the other guy covered. It was just an unlucky hand and everyone runs into one once in a while.
  • Why did I call? Because you suck at poker

    You had more than enough information to be able to get away from the hand. You just didn't realise that the only hand you beat is a bluff.

    Hero preflop raised and now you tink he has a jack in his hand. So.. Do you think he's preflop raising 2-9 J into a field of 5 players? At BEST you guys have the same hand at that point. The pots like $20 bucks when hero pushed for another $100 on top.

    And Hero, the reraise all in on the dryest board in the world is pretty bad too. The only hand that's calling you is QJ+. Why the rush to get all your chips in when Villain can improve to a second best hand?
    Why did I call? Because only two hands were going to beat me - JK or JA given the flop and I could possibly hit on the turn or river. I had a gut feel I was beat but made a dumb call by calling the bet

    No No No No No no. You can't give Villain credit for holding two random cards. He's given you information and you need to use it to narrow his range. He doesn't have 2 7offsuit. He could have AA-KK but it's a bad play on a paired board like that. So at best, he holds .. TJ+, QQ+.. 6 hands, yer ahead of 4 and behind 2.. You said you think he had a J, so yer ahead of 2 and behind 2.. You say he's tight, so forget TJ. Yer ahead of 1, behind 2. Thats why it's a bad call.
  • If you just flat my raise rather than shipping it in instantly I slow down right away because I give you credit for a jack but because you ship it in I can't give you credit for a J (as in why are you trying to push me out unless you know I have a hand I can't fold and you are overbetting the pot hoping to induce the call)

    raising to 50 is an overbet, pushing all-in is a dude with a massive made hand that's too stupid to realize you don't just push-all in when you have the best hand.
  • BBC Z wrote: »
    Hero preflop raised and now you tink he has a jack in his hand. So.. Do you think he's preflop raising 2-9 J into a field of 5 players? At BEST you guys have the same hand at that point. The pots like $20 bucks when hero pushed for another $100 on top.

    And Hero, the reraise all in on the dryest board in the world is pretty bad too. The only hand that's calling you is QJ+. Why the rush to get all your chips in when Villain can improve to a second best hand?
    Pot was $30 after my bet after the flop. Curc's bet makes it $50. My feeling is that he has a J and can't fold or he has AA/KK and I don't want him to suck out and just take it down there. I only have $125 left, so if I call I am giving him a free card where he might suck out, if I min raise to $40 or $50 I leave myself with less than pot for the turn and am already more/less pot committed. I certainly didn't have the stone cold nuts and rather than have to make a decision later on, I made the push. If I have a bigger stack or if the stacks are reversed, I don't push on the flop. But in my situation, I thought it was the most conservative move.
  • CURC wrote: »
    3. The all in move represented to me that he had a J and I assumed a high kicker.

    Why did I call? Because only two hands were going to beat me - JK or JA given the flop and I could possibly hit on the turn or river.

    you have $25 invested in the pot and are facing a $110 raise and you call with three outs (not counting the possible chops)?
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