Feel Like I Should Have Been Able To Lay This Down...

CerberusCerberus
in Analyze My Hand
Notes on villain as hyper aggressive. Took a while before I called on river because I couldn't figure it out. Put him on KK the whole hand. Bad read, yes. Bad call? You decide.

PokerStars Game #31049676007: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2009/07/30 11:48:00 ET
Table 'Stearns II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: McAusland ($14.55 in chips)
Seat 2: What_A_Chump ($20.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Amonal ($59.80 in chips)
Seat 4: pjotrpansen ($37.25 in chips)
Seat 5: TheonlyRasha ($20.90 in chips)
Seat 6: obi2kanobi ($32.70 in chips)
Seat 7: Trueshura ($5 in chips)
Seat 8: Destroyer972 ($16 in chips)
Seat 9: PepitaDeAji ($10.10 in chips)
obi2kanobi: posts small blind $0.10
Trueshura: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to McAusland [Ah As]
Destroyer972: folds
PepitaDeAji: folds
McAusland: raises $0.50 to $0.75
What_A_Chump: folds
Amonal: folds
pjotrpansen: calls $0.75
TheonlyRasha: calls $0.75
obi2kanobi: calls $0.65
Trueshura: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [9d Qs Qd]
obi2kanobi: checks
Trueshura: checks
McAusland: bets $0.75
pjotrpansen: raises $1.75 to $2.50
TheonlyRasha: folds
obi2kanobi: folds
Trueshura: folds
McAusland: calls $1.75
*** TURN *** [9d Qs Qd] [9s]
McAusland: checks
pjotrpansen: checks
*** RIVER *** [9d Qs Qd 9s] [9c]
McAusland: checks
pjotrpansen: bets $21.50
obi2kanobi said, "bluff"
McAusland: calls $11.30 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($10.20) returned to pjotrpansen
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pjotrpansen: shows [Qc Tc] (a full house, Queens full of Nines)
McAusland: shows [Ah As] (a full house, Nines full of Aces)
McAusland said, "gh sir"
pjotrpansen collected $29.85 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $31.35 | Rake $1.50
Board [9d Qs Qd 9s 9c]
Seat 1: McAusland showed [Ah As] and lost with a full house, Nines full of Aces
Seat 2: What_A_Chump folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Amonal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: pjotrpansen showed [Qc Tc] and won ($29.85) with a full house, Queens full of Nines
Seat 5: TheonlyRasha (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: obi2kanobi (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Trueshura (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Destroyer972 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: PepitaDeAji folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Comments

  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    KK 3bets you pre 99% of the time here.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    KK 3bets you pre 99% of the time here.

    +1

    after the flop hit, you weren't going to bet him off. larger bet preflop might have made him shut it down, but i doubt it

    nh sir
  • CerberusCerberus
    This is becoming a new trend for me: analyzing why I lost with a dominating hand instead of spazing about losing with it. Seems to be helping my game. Now, if I pay him off again then clearly I'm just staring at the cards and not actually analyzing my bad calls/plays.
  • jdAA88jdAA88
    You need to stop trying to put players on one specific hand (i.e. "put him on KK the whole hand") and instead put players on certain ranges.
    A couple other things:
    - Your bet-sizing is very bad on the flop (you raised to $.75 pre, got 4 callers, and now you're betting $.75 on the flop?????????)
    - Bad players always jam the river with the nuts (or close to the nuts) because they're too stupid to value bet their hand properly: they just shove and pray that you call so they get paid in full.
  • CerberusCerberus
    jdAA88 wrote: »
    You need to stop trying to put players on one specific hand (i.e. "put him on KK the whole hand") and instead put players on certain ranges.
    A couple other things:
    - Your bet-sizing is very bad on the flop (you raised to $.75 pre, got 4 callers, and now you're betting $.75 on the flop?????????)
    - Bad players always jam the river with the nuts (or close to the nuts) because they're too stupid to value bet their hand properly: they just shove and pray that you call so they get paid in full.

    Good advice on all accounts. I think my flop bet was to try guage if someone had the queen, but since I didn't believe his raise, obviously my guage was malfunctioning.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Preflop, pot is $3...a $.75 bet is way too small. If you're going to bet, it has to be half to 2/3 pot size, so min $1.50 to $2.00 Your bet only gave better odds for your opponents to call. .75 into $3 is giving them 4:1 on their money, very good deal
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    Cerebrus, listen to the advice on here... and APPLY! For sure KK 3 bets per, especially against 4 ops... Unless he's suicidal... Your raise to .75 is just a pot builder and encouragement for everyone to call.. Never, ever try to put your op on 1 hand, lol, that's just giving yourself an excuse to spew... As others said, a range is the way to do it, if it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't true.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    I guess the question is with all 3 streets having action, what were you really beating when there is a shove on the river.

    KK or any other pair is not shoving on the river
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    Short answer

    Yes, you've got to get away from this hand.

    Think about it, you raised PF, and got three callers, are they ALL playing 58, 9T, 56? Nope.... I find a lot of people call with KQ, KJ, QJ, QT. This is what someone meant by "not just one hand"... if you see a guy that calls 30% of the time preflop, he's one of these kinda guys, like them big pretty paint cards.

    Personally, the cards I worry about the most that call me (let's say I have AQ) and I don't hit, are K's and J's.. T's, not so much.

    Now, if this board came 8-2-2, sure you're probably good here, even with four players, but Q's... nah, you're beat.

    Mark
    Mark
  • CerberusCerberus
    You guys are awesome. Great advice that's not sugar coated. Much appreciated. :)
  • HenjonHenjon
    jdAA88 wrote: »
    - Bad players always jam the river with the nuts (or close to the nuts) because they're too stupid to value bet their hand properly: they just shove and pray that you call so they get paid in full.

    I'm not a frequent CG-player but I just want to add that Harrington argues (and as often tries to prove with a calculation) in his "Harrington on Cash games" that jamming the river often can be the most profitable way of playing this type of hands. The reason being your opponents calling or CR frequency will not be that much higher to compensate. The range of hands that will fold to an allin but call a smaller (but still decent) bet is just too narrow. Don't know if he is right, but seems reasonable to me.
  • DennisGDennisG
    Originally Posted by jdAA88 viewpost.gif
    - Bad players always jam the river with the nuts (or close to the nuts) because they're too stupid to value bet their hand properly: they just shove and pray that you call so they get paid in full.
    Henjon wrote: »
    I'm not a frequent CG-player but I just want to add that Harrington argues (and as often tries to prove with a calculation) in his "Harrington on Cash games" that jamming the river often can be the most profitable way of playing this type of hands. The reason being your opponents calling or CR frequency will not be that much higher to compensate. The range of hands that will fold to an allin but call a smaller (but still decent) bet is just too narrow. Don't know if he is right, but seems reasonable to me.


    See...this is why I really need to get these books..lmao..yeah yeah..gonna order them from Amazon shortly..

    Anyway..I will often jam the river with the nuts, and often get paid (at anything below 10 buck level)....people are bad enough to call with second and third rate hands..they seem to think a jam is a bluff more often than not..especially if you can do it frequently .


    Oh yeah, on topic...yeah, flop bet waaay too small and you gotta know you are beat with the reraise..too many callers for there not to be a queen out there...
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