Is there ever a time to fold KK preflop?

reibsreibs
in MTT Strategy
Just wondering if there is ever a good time to fold KK preflop? I was going to have to call a lot of my stack off here, and villain limped UTG +1. So I did a quick ss on him, and found out hes only played 3 games, and has a juicy -100% ROI (if only that was over a few thousand games!). Anyways, I was trying to get the Ace rags out of the pot, but seeing as hes a newbie, he could have shipped with any ace, not to mention AA. Is there ever a time to fold here to a newbie, or do you trust hes a dumby and hope for the best?




PokerStars Game #28793264161: Tournament #167859144, $3.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2009/05/30 13:23:21 ET
Table '167859144 2' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: 12stacks12 (3615 in chips)
Seat 2: REEBS77 (2750 in chips)
Seat 3: MWestlund (4120 in chips)
Seat 4: papaG313 (1915 in chips)
Seat 5: Molle2008 (1600 in chips)
Seat 6: MyBoyBrew (1715 in chips)
Seat 7: RSN4LIFE (2555 in chips)
Seat 8: bart2puck (2180 in chips)
REEBS77: posts small blind 25
MWestlund: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to REEBS77 [Kh Kc]
papaG313: folds
Molle2008: calls 50
MyBoyBrew: folds
RSN4LIFE: folds
bart2puck: calls 50
12stacks12: folds
REEBS77: raises 200 to 250
MWestlund: folds
Molle2008: raises 1350 to 1600 and is all-in
bart2puck: folds
REEBS77: calls 1350
*** FLOP *** [Th Ac 5d]
*** TURN *** [Th Ac 5d] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Th Ac 5d Qs] [Qc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
REEBS77: shows [Kh Kc] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
Molle2008: shows [Ah Ts] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
Molle2008 collected 3300 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3300 | Rake 0
Board [Th Ac 5d Qs Qc]
Seat 1: 12stacks12 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: REEBS77 (small blind) showed [Kh Kc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 3: MWestlund (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: papaG313 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Molle2008 showed [Ah Ts] and won (3300) with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 6: MyBoyBrew folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: RSN4LIFE folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: bart2puck folded before Flop

Comments

  • jdAA88jdAA88
    Absolutely never fold here....you shouldn't be worried about getting "ace-rags out of the pot", just worry about your equity, and with KK against ace-x you're in good shape.

    The only time you'll be faced with even considering folding KK is in a satellite situation.
  • SuitedPairSuitedPair
    jdAA88 wrote: »
    Absolutely never fold here....you shouldn't be worried about getting "ace-rags out of the pot", just worry about your equity, and with KK against ace-x you're in good shape.

    The only time you'll be faced with even considering folding KK is in a satellite situation.

    you mean near the bubble when a bunch of people get the same sat. upwards?
  • reibsreibs
    Yeah, I didnt even think twice when calling.... Villian was out about 5 hands later anyways, so I kept some notes, and will gladly join him in the future at games.
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    In this situation with only one raiser and no particular history this is never a fold...... Only when there is a raise, reraise and then a third raise could I ever consider it, and for that you have to be playing very deep, ie 200 BB and up.
    I know I'll get hammered for this but twice, that I can recall, I have folded KK preflop, once in a cash game and once in a tourney, both live by the way. In both instances one of the opps had AA and was as deep as I was. I saw both so I was right. Even though that's somewhat results orientated I felt very good about the folds.. So, to consider this, you both have to be playing deep, and you need to have a good bit of history against this opponent to be at least 80-90% sure... I'm not sure I could ever fold KK preflop online... If I did it would have to be in a satellite, close to the bubble, where all who survived get the same prize. Course I never play significant stakes online...
  • jdAA88jdAA88
    SuitedPair wrote: »
    you mean near the bubble when a bunch of people get the same sat. upwards?

    Yeah, situations like that.
  • GrahamGraham
    YouTube - AA vs KK vs AA
  • jdAA88jdAA88
    Graham wrote: »
    YouTube - AA vs KK vs AA

    so sick......kinda surprising Richey didn't pick up on Shak basically blurting out that she had aces, but then again it may look different on video.
  • westside8westside8
    SuitedPair wrote: »
    you mean near the bubble when a bunch of people get the same sat. upwards?

    Pretty much the only time I can fold KK preflop (and the ONLY time I was fold AA preflop) - of course unless I have a tight player like compuease show me he actually have AA.
  • westside8westside8
    jdAA88 wrote: »
    so sick......kinda surprising Richey didn't pick up on Shak basically blurting out that she had aces, but then again it may look different on video.

    Yeah...Phil and Beth pretty much did everything possible to tell Richey they had AA, other than to show Richey the AA of course.

    When I was watching it...I was hoping for K on the flop, and the AA makes a straight on the river.
  • GrahamGraham
    jdAA88 wrote: »
    so sick......kinda surprising Richey didn't pick up on Shak basically blurting out that she had aces, but then again it may look different on video.

    I think he was just so focussed on his own cards that he didn't look to see what was going on around him and the other players.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    King one time!!!!
  • BlondeFishBlondeFish
    Hellmuth is out of order, Shak is way out of order and almost kills her hand by removing her cards from the felt and taking them away from the table. I wished the TD at the time killed both their hands and awarded the pot to Richey! :p
    jdAA88 wrote: »
    Shak basically blurting out that she had
    aces
  • Richard~Richard~
    Too bad we didn't see quad kings on the flop, just to watch shak and hellmuth ^^'
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