Potted, called by gutshot

QuinnerQuinner
in Analyze My Hand
Did I play this bad?

PokerStars Game #27438932881: Tournament #158357727, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2009/04/24 10:34:26 ET
Table '158357727 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: wasi55 (3480 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: Flashlight82 (895 in chips)
Seat 3: AMESA007 (1615 in chips)
Seat 4: denigrative (2805 in chips)
Seat 5: tnlovells (610 in chips)
Seat 6: Quinner777 (1750 in chips)
Seat 9: freebird69xx (2345 in chips)
wasi55: posts small blind 25
Flashlight82: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Quinner777 [8s Ts]
AMESA007: folds
denigrative: folds
tnlovells: folds
Quinner777: calls 50
freebird69xx: calls 50
wasi55: folds
Flashlight82: checks
*** FLOP *** [9c 3s Tc]
Flashlight82: checks
AMESA007 said, "holy crap man, this game becomes more difficult when people walk into your office and bother you"
Quinner777: bets 150
freebird69xx: calls 150
Flashlight82: folds
*** TURN *** [9c 3s Tc] [8d]
Quinner777: bets 350
freebird69xx: raises 350 to 700
Quinner777: raises 850 to 1550 and is all-in
freebird69xx: calls 850
*** RIVER *** [9c 3s Tc 8d] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Quinner777: shows [8s Ts] (two pair, Tens and Nines)
freebird69xx: shows [7s 6s] (a straight, Six to Ten)
freebird69xx collected 3575 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3575 | Rake 0
Board [9c 3s Tc 8d 9s]
Seat 1: wasi55 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Flashlight82 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: AMESA007 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: denigrative folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: tnlovells folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Quinner777 showed [8s Ts] and lost with two pair, Tens and Nines
Seat 9: freebird69xx (button) showed [7s 6s] and won (3575) with a straight, Six to TenHere's my thinking, JQ is not in his range because I would expect him to raise this sort of hand on the button, when he calls my flop bet I put him on a bigger ten than me, so when the 8 hits I think this is the perfect card for me to extract a ton of value from someone who is going to overplay their top pair. The only hand in his range that can beat me is T9, and if he had that well then thats a shitty turn card for me and I don't mind.

But calling a pot sized bet on a gutshot??? And he's LUCKY I hit two pair because any other cards other than a T or an 8 and I am check/folding or possibly check/calling a small bet.

Comments

  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    This is a fold or raise preflop. I don't like limping in that position. As played out though there is nothing you can do on the turn as you hit the card you wanted unfortunately it also hits the villian.

    You had ample chips so I am confused as to why you want to mix is up against a short stack, and if you do, I would be coming in for a raise of about 200, just so that I can take down the blinds.

    Really on that flop I don't see the villian going anywhere if he is willing to call off a good junk of his stack on a gutshot.

    Just unlucky IMO
  • RAM_EhRAM_Eh
    Your opponet got lucky.

    This is a fold preflop 9/10 times. You are looking for agression in your game by your other posts. If you play and you are the first one in raise. You win an un contested pot and don't go broke.

    On the turn you should fold to a raise, the 8 completes an open ended and in your case a gut shot.
  • QuinnerQuinner
    I guess because 8Ts isn't really all that great a hand, and because the blinds are low enough that it's not really worth stealing quite just yet. I get into aggressive mode always by the 50/100 stage, the 25/50 stage I still limp in with some suited connectors or one gappers to try and hit some monster flops. But you think I should be raising because we want to get the shortstack out of the hand?

    Why is that?
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Dead Money wrote: »
    Your opponet got lucky.

    This is a fold preflop 9/10 times. You are looking for agression in your game by your other posts. If you play and you are the first one in raise. You win an un contested pot and don't go broke.

    On the turn you should fold to a raise, the 8 completes an open ended and in your case a gut shot.

    Well he just min raised me, which I never know how to take, its either a weak bluff attempt, or trying to see whether his ten with good kicker is good, or its a legitmate I just hit a monster kind of re-raise. He wasn't playing all that aggressively but at the same time when I think about what his possible holdings are I think I beat alot of what he could have in this spot. At least I think so, maybe my thinking is flawed. Also, why am I folding this hand 9 out of 10 times? It's not a great hand, but the blinds are low and I have not great but ok position.
  • RAM_EhRAM_Eh
    Quinner wrote: »
    I guess because 8Ts isn't really all that great a hand, and because the blinds are low enough that it's not really worth stealing quite just yet. I get into aggressive mode always by the 50/100 stage, the 25/50 stage I still limp in with some suited connectors or one gappers to try and hit some monster flops. But you think I should be raising because we want to get the shortstack out of the hand?

    Why is that?

    Raising is to steal the pot! The best advice I can give is to do the opposite that everyone else is doing. At the 50/100-100/200 everyone is aggressive. At the lower levels everyone is passive.

    Give you a great example of this:

    I miss clicked!

    UTG I have 4c,6c and thought to fold. This is a SNG first round. I am chip leader. I raised double the BB instead. Everyone folded but the BB. Flop comes A, 4, J. Since I f'ed up I thought of a C bet on the turn representing a A. Called by the BB. I know he has an A...kicker????. Turn is another 4. He checks and I fire. He moves in and looses. He had AQ.

    My example is to show the passiveness of Early levels. If the blinds were 100/200, he doesn't let me see the flop.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    You really need to focus more on stack sizes when determining how to play a hand. Really you effective stacks there were under 800, so was it really worth it trying to tie yourself up with a mediocre hand.

    Those types of hands are used when you are a little deeper with stacks and you have the opportunity to exploit things more on the flop.

    Basically as a villian, this is how I read the hand.

    1. You have a decent stack, you limp so I give you credit for maybe two overcards like jq,kq, and you don't want to get fancy with your play, hoping to hit a hand.

    2. I flop a gutshot but I also think I may have outs even if a 7 of 6 a come off the turn. Your flop bet to me doesn't signal anything other than a classic C bet, I may even check raise that spot and put you to a decision because I don't see how that flop helped you at all limping from late position.

    3. I hit my gin card on the turn and I know now I am 100% good and you are most likely drawing dead (the fact that you made a monster on the turn is oblvious to me cause of the C-bet on the flop). I check to induce another bet, if you check behind that is fine too because I am hoping for paint on the river anyways.

    4. The fact that you bet means now you may have a draw or you might actually have hit top pair, I am already committed and I know you won't fold so I go all in.

    After checking the hand history I say "whoops" and I scold you for playing 108 suited in late position and laugh at how I hit my gutshot to win....

    Then the karma bug comes and I lose QQ to AA.....gg me....LOL (figured I would put that in as a laugh for the end)
  • QuinnerQuinner
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    You really need to focus more on stack sizes when determining how to play a hand. Really you effective stacks there were under 800, so was it really worth it trying to tie yourself up with a mediocre hand.

    Those types of hands are used when you are a little deeper with stacks and you have the opportunity to exploit things more on the flop.

    Basically as a villian, this is how I read the hand.

    1. You have a decent stack, you limp so I give you credit for maybe two overcards like jq,kq, and you don't want to get fancy with your play, hoping to hit a hand.

    2. I flop a gutshot but I also think I may have outs even if a 7 of 6 a come off the turn. Your flop bet to me doesn't signal anything other than a classic C bet, I may even check raise that spot and put you to a decision because I don't see how that flop helped you at all limping from late position.

    3. I hit my gin card on the turn and I know now I am 100% good and you are most likely drawing dead (the fact that you made a monster on the turn is oblvious to me cause of the C-bet on the flop). I check to induce another bet, if you check behind that is fine too because I am hoping for paint on the river anyways.

    4. The fact that you bet means now you may have a draw or you might actually have hit top pair, I am already committed and I know you won't fold so I go all in.

    After checking the hand history I say "whoops" and I scold you for playing 108 suited in late position and laugh at how I hit my gutshot to win....

    Then the karma bug comes and I lose QQ to AA.....gg me....LOL (figured I would put that in as a laugh for the end)


    LOL damn that Karma!

    Quick question: When you are referring to effective stacks you just mean what exactly? I'm just confused because the BB had about 900 I had 1750 and btn had 2350 and you say we had 800 effective stacks.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    Basically what I was saying was on the flop the only person who called you had 900 (sorry I misread and put 800 but same idea)

    So you are risking 1/2 of your stack to win with a marginal hand. That is why I said pick a better spot.
  • QuinnerQuinner
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    Basically what I was saying was on the flop the only person who called you had 900 (sorry I misread and put 800 but same idea)

    So you are risking 1/2 of your stack to win with a marginal hand. That is why I said pick a better spot.

    I'm still confused, Freebird called me, and he had 2345 chips. Not the big blind who had 900.
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