.......What?
So lesson learned here just bet crazy big so all the draws go away.
Say its the second round of the tournament, blinds 15/30, you have a starting stack of 1500. Its folded around to you on the button with K4s, you could fold, becuz stealing blinds is pretty useless right now, but lets say you raise 3xBB. You get two callers. The flop comes down a very sweet, K 4 6 rainbow. Two pair! Both players check to you.
First question: How much do you bet? You want the others to stay in (against your decent made hand) because you think they'll fold if you bet too much, so in my situation, you bet another 90 chips, enough to scare off absolutely nothing but enough to entice calls from weaker hands 1 fold, 1 caller...great!
Turn 9
Checked back to you.... now what? It looks like a harmless card so you keep with your betting small strategy and fire another 180 into the pot.
Villain calls...hmmmm......
River 5
Checked to you a final time, are you worried about being beaten here? Probably not, maybe put villain on a weak king so fire off another 360 for value.
Get re-raised all in.
???? What could he possibly have??
Slow played set, K with good kicker maybe???
You call and he tables 78 for the straight on the river.....
Now just out of curiosity...wouldn't most ppl give this up on the flop??
Wow.
Say its the second round of the tournament, blinds 15/30, you have a starting stack of 1500. Its folded around to you on the button with K4s, you could fold, becuz stealing blinds is pretty useless right now, but lets say you raise 3xBB. You get two callers. The flop comes down a very sweet, K 4 6 rainbow. Two pair! Both players check to you.
First question: How much do you bet? You want the others to stay in (against your decent made hand) because you think they'll fold if you bet too much, so in my situation, you bet another 90 chips, enough to scare off absolutely nothing but enough to entice calls from weaker hands 1 fold, 1 caller...great!
Turn 9
Checked back to you.... now what? It looks like a harmless card so you keep with your betting small strategy and fire another 180 into the pot.
Villain calls...hmmmm......
River 5
Checked to you a final time, are you worried about being beaten here? Probably not, maybe put villain on a weak king so fire off another 360 for value.
Get re-raised all in.
???? What could he possibly have??
Slow played set, K with good kicker maybe???
You call and he tables 78 for the straight on the river.....
Now just out of curiosity...wouldn't most ppl give this up on the flop??
Wow.
Comments
Both hands you have posted tonight showcase you betting like a pussy. Poker loves aggression. So Get Aggressive!!!!
He calls that flop because the price is nice. For $90 he can likely get your whole stack if he hits his gutter and you are holding AK, Set, or 2 pair. You have given him 'good' implied odds.
If you play aggressive you will post some hands where you can say, "Look how I got this sucker to call." If you keep making these little bets on the flop and the turn and then getting your stack in on the river you are going to be posting a lot more of theses bad beat stories.
Seriously if you are looking for some advice, lose the min bet, small bet crap.
Deal, on the condition that i can still whine if he calls two pot size bets and hits his gutter on the river. :P
This looks to me like another situation when you want villain to stay in the pot and keep calling your bets. To make it a profitable play in the long run you just have to deny him the right odds for doing so. Your bets while small aren't to small if you're leaving aside the implied odds. On turn you give him 3,5 to 1 and he needs 4,5 to 1 if he's on a straight. But that requires you to fold everytime a scary card lands on river and he bets (which you obviously can't do). So I agree you have to bet some more to extract more value to compensate for those times when he hits his draw and you loose the hand (and often also a lot of chips). But betting to much will probably chase him away (even calling stations with a 8-high gut shot straight draw have their limits for calling). I think I would bet about half the pot here on both flop and turn. Had I spotted the risk of an open-ended straight draw on turn it's possible I would have bet even more because if he lays his hand down I still won a decent pot.
There's also a lot of other possible scenarios when villain has much less outs. You have a well concealed hand and its possible that villain also has a king with a better kicker and thinks he has you beaten. Or a middle pair or even ace high. But he's probably not willing to play for all his stack so you need to keep your bets down a little bit to get the calls you want (a better player would have checkraised of course in many cases but the question was how to deal with a player who plays passive but still play too many hands and play them with wrong odds. )
Its not always about taking it to the river for maximum dollar. Theres nothing wrong (in my opinion) with taking down many small pots and staying in the game with a slowly increasing stack, rather than trying to get others to go all in right away and hope you didn't just put your tournament life on the line with only 2 pair.
Villian=DrTyore??
Problem is he played it relatively fine given what you bet since he knows he will likely get paid off if he hits. I personally do not go for the fancy check raise on that river if I am him, but I guess it worked in this case.
You had a decent but not unbeatable hand and you bet in a way that encouraged even an inside straight draw to come along since they will get paid off if and when they hit.
Bet 200 on the flop, then 700+ (maybe all in) on that turn. A hand like AK/KQ may pay you off and you make people on draws make a mistake calling you. You avoid that really uncomfortable river spot you got into this way. If the opponent flopped a set, well thems be the breaks, just hope for a king river :P
You have to keep in mind you have not really established a table image yet and to make your "moves" successful you have to make them believable and if no one has seen you play what do they have to go on.
Keep that in mind when play this way.
And regarding the hand....once again that early on in the tourney 85% of the time that is not a bluff on the river.