Live 1/2
Ok..so, I spent my first real weekend grinding away at the casino in Penticton, BC...
I came up to this hand...now..my numbers aren't exact, but they are close..I know I should have paid a bit more attention...but..so be it..
First..the three people in question..
Button: Hyper aggressive big stack (1300+) regular. Been raising every pot with limpers in it, calling most bets/raises to see the flop then betting big to push everyone out..
BB: Fairly new to the table, about 15-20? hands..made some pf raises 12-15 bucks each (table norm), let go of the hands after...earlier in the day while I was on the wait list I watched him tilt off a big stack in two hands by insta shoving on the river and getting called..showing crap...then he left...later bought back into our table for 200.
Myself in MP: Table image has been reasonably tight, won some decent pots, but only shown 2 hands, QQ (set) and J9 (straight)...been sitting about an hour and up about 80 bucks from my 160 buy in.
I pick up KK
UTG has straddle on for 4...so we get most everyone limping in..seems to be common for everyone to limp when the straddle comes on..not sure why as hyper aggressive boy just raises it 30-40 bucks every time..and everyone folds...but..whatever..not the case in point..lol..
comes to me I raise to 30 about 15? in the pot..folds to button who, of course, calls... and BB calls....
Flop 7 Q 7c
checked to me, bet 30. (I know, not big enough)
Hyper folds (strangely..but he has shown a few hands of mine respect)
BB flat calls.
Turn 3c
I bet 40 (again..in retrospect..not enough)
BB raises to 75
I think for a bit and call. (probably should have re shipped?)
Jc comes off on the river and he insta-shoves all in for his remaining 120ish...I just have him covered.
Thoughts here???????
I came up to this hand...now..my numbers aren't exact, but they are close..I know I should have paid a bit more attention...but..so be it..
First..the three people in question..
Button: Hyper aggressive big stack (1300+) regular. Been raising every pot with limpers in it, calling most bets/raises to see the flop then betting big to push everyone out..
BB: Fairly new to the table, about 15-20? hands..made some pf raises 12-15 bucks each (table norm), let go of the hands after...earlier in the day while I was on the wait list I watched him tilt off a big stack in two hands by insta shoving on the river and getting called..showing crap...then he left...later bought back into our table for 200.
Myself in MP: Table image has been reasonably tight, won some decent pots, but only shown 2 hands, QQ (set) and J9 (straight)...been sitting about an hour and up about 80 bucks from my 160 buy in.
I pick up KK
UTG has straddle on for 4...so we get most everyone limping in..seems to be common for everyone to limp when the straddle comes on..not sure why as hyper aggressive boy just raises it 30-40 bucks every time..and everyone folds...but..whatever..not the case in point..lol..
comes to me I raise to 30 about 15? in the pot..folds to button who, of course, calls... and BB calls....
Flop 7 Q 7c
checked to me, bet 30. (I know, not big enough)
Hyper folds (strangely..but he has shown a few hands of mine respect)
BB flat calls.
Turn 3c
I bet 40 (again..in retrospect..not enough)
BB raises to 75
I think for a bit and call. (probably should have re shipped?)
Jc comes off on the river and he insta-shoves all in for his remaining 120ish...I just have him covered.
Thoughts here???????
Comments
Flop pot is roughly 100 I bet 70 and ship on the turn HU...this is without being able to get any reads other than what you have provided.
How is the poker room in Penticton, any bigger games running regularly?
Is there a reason why you're not limping with the rest if you say that the LAG button has been raising EVERY pot with limpers?
As played, bet bigger on flop.
And he can't raise to $75 on turn when you bet $40 (unless you guys have some weird house rules on raising can be less than double of original bet). Oh..and ship the turn over his raise.
In retrospect, yep, I agree...I thought about this hand a lot over the weekend...and the 4.5 hour drive home...
They only had 1/2 tables when I was there. Kelowna is supposed to be getting a card room, as well as Vernon...maybe bigger games will crop up?
Yeah, this was another thing I thought about afterwards..being new to cash tables, I think I was a bit nervous, and just wanted them to know I was playing the hand...I did know he would call...but also thought, if an ace came out on the flop...I wanted to be able to represent..
You are correct, I think I must have bet 30 or 35 again..like I said..numbers weren't exact..
I knew Hyper would call, so I wasn't too worried preflop about him, nor really was I worried about the new guy, as I had seen him make and call a few raises and let hands go..
After the flop...hyper let go of the hand...and new guy calls...He didn't insta call, he thought about it..And when he called initially for the 28 extra, I figured PP or big ace..he isn't that large of a stack to put over 10% out there on hoping to hit something funny...
flop 7 Q 7. I thought that was a pretty good flop for me once hyper folded to me. Again, my thoughts of big ace or pp came back to me. I didn't think QQ as he likely would have reraised preflop? I didn't feel A7 for 28 bucks, nor A7 suited...it just didn't feel like it..I really thought AJ-AK....probably not AK..but not going to rule it out..and after he calls here on the flop, I figure AQ-KQ-JQ is a pretty likely holding...
The club comes on the turn and he reraises...and yeah I should have shipped..not entirely sure what I was thinking here..need one of those Gus Hansen recorders..I really didn't think flush here, as he called pre and post flop without the second club
In the meantime..I have also thought about 10Q, JQ, KQ..but again...until the flop club came out...didn't really perceive him on the flush as well..bad thinking on my part no doubt...
I didn't take that long to call his raise, and think I did so quite confidently to let him know I thought I was still good.
River club...he got red in the face and insta shoved.
Now I think to myself..did I just let him draw a flush on me? Again, I ruled out QQ, I ruled out x7 holdings.. and now my thoughts focused on XQ holdings that were clubs..so, I thought AcQc first...but if he just made nut flush, why would he shove me off the pot when I am aggressor? Same with any flush when clearly I have been betting all the way through and that wasn't my draw? I figured that, after the other club on the river hit he decided to use it as a scare..
I figured there was about 420ish in the pot now with his shove and my 120ish would make just about 600...4-1 almost..again rough calculations in my head...120ish was mine...300 profit..
Then I thought about his other pushes at the other table I saw..where he insta shoved with nothing to try to buy...
This was over the course of several minutes that I mulled this all over...and after apologizing to everyone for taking so much time...I could only put him on XQ holdings and the river club was a bluff-shove....I finally decided that I had my other buy in still in my pocket, and that I had to make the call....and turned over my kings.
I honestly took that as a good sign of smaller pair or hitting the queen...as it made sense in my mind to what I thought were his holdings.
When I called and pushed the chips in, he instantly dropped his head, nodded as if to say "nice call" and insta mucked without looking at my Kings...I should have asked to see his cards I guess, but by the time the dealer got to the cards he had already left the table...I wasn't too concerned.then....but would like to know now..lol
I do realize I could have played that hand much better...but was pretty happy my thought processes brought me to the right conclusion..
I ended up spending 8 hours on the table...making one really bad chip spew for 200, with of course...JJ...but made it back and cashed out the night with 960...800 profit.
One other question that I won't bother starting a new thread on...
In this hand...his chips were all out neatly stacked in the middle...mine were all pushed out neatly over the line...the dealer, when putting them back in front of me..decides to wipe all the stacks over...and let me restack everything....is that normal? She could easily have slid his stacks over and left mine exactly where they were in front of me....
betting on the flop was fine (more is better) but that raise on the turn is what would have concerned me. Most of the time I see someone push, they usually have a decent hand, especially at 1/2. Its hard to get away from a $480 pot for $120 more.
I agree, I can see someone with AQ making this raise on the turn; although I would be pretty confused with the shove (from a decent player) on the river. Most decent players don't overvalue top pair so I wouldn't put them on AQ once they pushed. Not unless they had AQc and then I'm pretty well fucked.
it may not have been an EV+ move over time...which is why I was bringing it to the table to get analysis on...and how to play it better next time...
lol..better fucking not be that..or I want all the money I gave her in prior hands back. I tipped the dealer every hand I took down the pot. Two of the guys on the table, that were regulars, said something to her....she just said she was supposed to do that..?
You play wayyyy to passively
no she isn't
I think with this flop your probably right; I guess I have been burned with an over pair a few times, it still haunts me. Although his read of the player most definitely justified the all-in call. Knowing that this player has a history of shoving with air makes a big difference.
I'm more careful these days with over pairs and would rather win a small pot than risk all my chips.
On the flip side, last Friday I was in the BB and it was raised pre-flop to $12 with two other callers. I decided to call the additional $10 raise. Flop comes 99J rainbow and I check and the intial raiser makes it $50. Its folded around to me and I call the $50. Turn is a 2d and I check again which causes the initial raiser to push his last $120. I call and he flips over AA. I take down the pot with 95d. Sometimes an overpair can cost you all your chips.
He probably took this bet as week and tried to take the pot away. Re ship on turn for sure as played.
Normally, bet bigger on the flop, ship turn. Pretty safe flop for $30 preflop.....unless played a 78 or 67.......but I take my chances.
definately not.....but I'll never complain stacking a $600.00 pot
In a game with the hyper agro you described...you really should have limp raised. And failing that oppurtunity...you really should have checked to him on the flop so that he could bet and you could trap him and the BB on the flop where your almost always ahead.
I had thought about it, but, my worries were that for some reason he wouldn't (raise) this particular time...and I would be stuck with a bunch of limpers and an Ace would come off on the flop...I figured I would get his call regardless, and the others out...
I like the check on the flop and letting them go first..probably would have gotten the extra bet that way...
Thanks for all the input here!!
Fearing that the 1 time he doesnt raise out of the history of indiscretion he has had isnt the way to go about playing poker. Ya sure the flush doesnt always make it...the sets dont always hold up...but given the right probabilities...you still gotta go with it. And the probability in this instance, the hyper agro as desribed was almost definitely going to raise for you...so why not exploit it?
Kai, where you playing these days? Used to read your blog a few years ago.
Still playing a bunch on Party. I did just start playing on Stars in the middle of February...my screen name there is pretty obvious. And playing the odd WPT and CPT events. Think Im going to head down to Calgary for that HU event in May. And obviously the WSOP.
The blog was fun for a while but after a while it just started to become work. I much prefer to just troll the odd forum and dole out my opinons whenever I please without having to worry about the quality of advice im giving out.
Hope things are going well for you GTA. I seem to remember many nice comments from u on the blog and appreciate the support.