Poker After Dark(online players vs the pros)

xTiltThisxxTiltThisx
in General Poker Chat
Just wondering if anyone else caught that session from Poker after Dark and had the same reaction i did when Doyle (sitting with KJ off suit) made the online kid (sitting with 56 diamonds), fold his trip 6's, even after the kid had 50k into to the pot. Talk about a sick fold.
For those that never saw it, it kinda went like this...
Kid (56 diamonds) bets 4500
Doyle (KJ off suit) calls
Flop: 66K

Kid: raise 10k
Doyle: calls
Turn: 8

Kid: bets 15k
Doyle: calls
River: J

Kid: bets 25k
Doyle: reraise +40k

Kid: Folds

I just couldn't believe my eyes!!! LOL

Comments

  • DennisGDennisG
    Saw it on the net...can't believe the kid didn't ship it...*shaking head*

    Guess there is some serious pressure playing live against Doyle (or any big name pro) that makes ones thought patterns very screwed up?
  • NoVeLTeKNoVeLTeK
    u guys are terrible
  • Big MikeBig Mike
    Trips are the nuts, you should never ever fold them. Even with a 5 kicker.
  • DennisGDennisG
    Seriously...what does Doyle call a 4500 bet with? K6? A6? 68? AK? Maybe he has kk...maybe....one would have to think a pp or a big K.....but if you can't play trips HU..when can you? set over set?..so be it.

    I can't see a fold there. Guess that is why I don't get invited...lol
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    noone had a set
  • OPRCOPRC
    i have to say...had that been me...regardless of doyle's reraise...i woulda pushed all in with the set, regardless of the 5 kicker and gone for it. Specially if i already had 50k into the pot. LOL
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    noone had a set
    I don't think they're listening Dave..... :)
  • Big MikeBig Mike
    Ihaveyourname wrote: »
    Seriously...what does Doyle call a 4500 bet with? K6? A6? 68? AK? Maybe he has kk...maybe....one would have to think a pp or a big K.....but if you can't play trips HU..when can you? set over set?..so be it.

    I can't see a fold there. Guess that is why I don't get invited...lol

    If he's seen the kid raise with hands like 56 he might just call with a LOT of hands, KK, JJ, 88, A6s and 68 all being among them.
    Remember this hand isn't likely the first hand of the game.
  • DennisGDennisG
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    noone had a set

    I was saying IF Doyle had a set...the kid had 3 6's. Trips, set, call it what you will..yeah I know the difference...it would have been trips over set (close enough for me)..

    I don't care who I am playing, 3 of a kind off the flop, (barring blatant flush/straight draws) I will push hard to the end...Show me how that isn't EV+.
  • Big MikeBig Mike
    Ihaveyourname wrote: »

    I don't care who I am playing, 3 of a kind off the flop, (barring blatant flush/straight draws) I will push hard to the end...Show me how that isn't EV+.

    It isn't ev+ if you do push hard to the river (the like the 'kid' did) and a guy pushes BACK at you even harder, like 40k hard. I'm not saying I don't ever make that call (obv i would at the stakes I play), but saying that bottom trips no kicker just isn't foldable can't be a winning strategy against good players.
  • DennisGDennisG
    Big Mike wrote: »
    but saying that bottom trips no kicker just isn't foldable can't be a winning strategy against good players.

    Point noted...

    I still shove and pray....lol
  • JCardzJCardz
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    noone had a set

    Raptor had a set of 6s.
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    JCardz wrote: »
    Raptor had a set of 6s.

    uh, no he had trips...

    trips.jpg

    40k to win 128k, give both Doyle and Benefield's table images throughout the session I don't see how this isn't a call.
  • esoolesool
    Ihaveyourname wrote: »
    I was saying IF Doyle had a set...the kid had 3 6's. Trips, set, call it what you will..yeah I know the difference...it would have been trips over set (close enough for me)..
    .

    If Doyle had a set he would actually had a full house with the two 6s on board.

    Sorry I couldn't resist. :)
  • westside8westside8
    If anyone cares - from Raptor's blog.
    Before talking about food, I want to address the 56 vs KJ hand I had on Poker After Dark. I am getting a lot of questions about my thought process during that hand, so I suppose I should talk about it a little bit. Before I say anything, I want to say that I think Doyle is a super awesome guy, a great ambassador for poker, and just an overall nice person that is impossible to hate.

    The general outline is, there isn’t a single hand he ever has on that river that he is bluffing with there. Not one. He is never double floating me, then raising super small after tanking for two minutes. It is just not a play that is in his arsenal, nor the arsenal of any winning/half decent player. This was definitely not an easy spot, and what I find myself doing most often is just saying screw it then calling, which I just don’t think is the most profitable play.

    The only hand I can conceivably beat on the river here is KJ. That is it. ONE hand. There isn’t anything else that will call the flop, call the turn, tanking for like 90 seconds on the river then make a super itty bitty raise, and with my range, I decided it would be absolutely terrible to value raise KJ on the river in Doyle’s spot. Obviously, if we want to be results oriented fish, we can be like haha Doyle OWND raptor what a stupid fish he folded TRIPS ZOMG ZOMG what a stupid ‘net’ this just proves how hard ‘vets’ own.

    Well, yes, he ownd me, but he thought he was value betting, when he is getting paid off by NOTHING except hands that beat him. I am folding AK/KQ there, but he doesn’t know that, and those are the only possible hands he could possibly expect to pay off there that he can beat. He decided to act like the stereotypical live player and think oh, this kid raised in EARLY position and bet all the streets on a K high board, he must have the AK.

    I admit, I look extremely silly on tv here, but if I had to run that exact situation a thousand more times, I would still fold every single one of them based on my read(yes I am aware this opens up opportunities to turn top pair into a bluff blah blah we can talk this in circles). There just aren’t enough hands that I beat in that specific spot, and I am still utterly convinced calling there is lighting money on fire in the long term.

    Unfortunately, I made the mistake of giving Doyle too much credit. I find that happens a lot in live games I play in, well, even online for that matter, and it causes me to make a few errors I wouldn’t make if I just continued to play under the assumption that everyone is an idiot. Unfortunately again, this makes me look like a huge idiot, but I am ok with that. I am not going to get mathematical and break down hand ranges and blah blah because that is boring, but I went with my read that Doyle thought Doyle had the best hand and that I thought Doyle thought about my entire range of hands instead of putting me on the AK, and made the very tiny super small value raise based on that. My read was incorrect, and I cost myself the biggest pot of the night because of it.

    The closed minded individuals that are like haha stupid nit ‘net’ is scared to play in that big game with all that LIVE money zomg he shoulda just checked river.. well, I don’t even really know how to respond to that other than LOL there is a reason you don’t win money at poker. I think the decision was super close, and honestly could have easily gone the other way if I had a slightly different read, or he gave off something or if anything at all changed. Based on the information I had, I felt a fold was the best play. A super close play, but the best play. That’s all I got, Love you guys, thanks so much for all the support. Now back to the food log, wheeeeeee.
  • Big MikeBig Mike
    "I am still utterly convinced calling there is lighting money on fire in the long term."

    ^^My favorite quote from that.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    The funny thing is I have to agree with Raptor here. Playing a live game I am more likely to lay this hand down than online where I would ship it.

    Removing the names for a minute and classifying each player

    Raptor (David) - Aggro young pro
    Brunson - Old vet nitty and plays the nuts pro

    As we often see aggro young kids like to open wide and nitty old men like to have their premium hands get paid off. In this situation here when the kid raises and the nitty old man calls the kid automatically places a range on the old man. In this case most likely premium hands....when the C-bet happens and there is just a flat call some red flags may go up but then again its a C-bet so you expect the flop call.

    Now when the board bricks an 8 on the turn (based on ranges Old guy must play AA-10s and everything in between), now the young kid can barrel out another street and see what happens. This is the interesting part which will help define the old man's range....a call here is scary...(re-raise in this spot looks like they are unsure if they are ahead or not). Right away the young kid has to put old man on a hand.

    So what goes through young kid's mind. Well he has a 6 so the likelihood of old man having a 6 is scarce and it doesn't fit the old man persona...(they don't like to get tricky)...now with that K on the flop it could be AK or KK he doesn't know yet.....the fact that the old man has position is the problem with the hand.

    The re-raise on the river the way played looks exactly like KK was trapping all the way trying to get maximum value out of the aggro kid. A dumb player makes the re-raise call not thinking about the hand ranges and action preflop.

    In this case specifically I check call for value against the old man knowing very well I could be beat and was hanging myself at the same time.

    Back to the original hand, Doyle played it perfectly to rep KK and Benefield is a smart enough player to know when he is beat. Classic tale of playing the player not the cards. I can see Doyle doing that there with AK as well cause he knows Benefield is capable of making big laydowns.

    When thinking about this hand how many times have YOU personally been re-raised on the river in a BIG pot and then called only to find out that you were behind all the way. I know I have done that several times, so unless I have the nuts most times its a fold for me in a live game because people rarely bluff away 1000s on the river...its usually on the turn :)
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    The funny thing is I have to agree with Raptor here. Playing a live game I am more likely to lay this hand down than online where I would ship it.

    Removing the names for a minute and classifying each player

    Raptor (David) - Aggro young pro
    Brunson - Old vet nitty and plays the nuts pro

    Did you even watch the session? Great reads.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    Did you even watch the session? Great reads.

    I did watch the whole episode on pokertube and I did see Raptor call down with 1 pair as well....against Kaplan...after he got checkraised...

    My point was more of a generalization than anything else where people were saying they would most likely never fold....

    It was to the point that most times if you get re-raised on the river you are beat. Replacing both players with non pros the hand most likely shows down 56 vs Kings full.
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    This tells the story pretty well:

    Episode David Benefield's Female Skills
  • GrahamGraham
    gta poker wrote: »
    this tells the story pretty well:

    episode david benefield's female skills

    lol...wtf
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