Getting all your money in on the flop

Just wondering if you would play these hands any differently when you hit a good flop. I have been losing a lot of big hands lately on the flop when I think I am good and the other player catches up by the river. I know statistically I am ahead on the flop, but, should some of these hands be played a little more conservatively down to the river to see what other cards might materialize by the river (and maybe change the dynamics of the hand). Is it better to maybe make 1/2 to pot size bets on the flop and turn to make the villian pay to see another card, while not committing all your chips on the flop?

1) 99, flop comes 10109; you get all you chips in the middle on the flop and the other player has A10; river brings an ace.

2) 46s, flop comes 357; all chips in the middle again vs 55; villian hits quads on the river; with 7 outs on the turn or 10 on the river to hit the boat (or quads), should this be played a little slower on the flop?

3) KJh, flop comes 239h; all chips in the middle and another heart comes on the river giving this other player an ace high flush (AhAd).

Comments

  • You want all the money in on the first two... you are so ahead of anything. If you can get the money in on the flop good job.

    The third example, you could be against AXs. As is you were still ahead.

    Suck outs happen... but if you can get the money in as a 5-1 favorite, then keep playing this game. Youll do well.
  • yah, I don't want this thread to seem like I am bitching about some bad beats. I want to see if anyone may have played these hands differently considering what the other player held.

    The first hand I was happy that we ended up all in on the flop when I saw his cards. On the turn, his only outs were the 10(1), A(3). On the river, the turn card 6 realistically gave him three more outs if another 6 came. We both had about 200 behind and there was about 50 in the pot pre-flop. In this hand I bet $20 on the flop and he raised it to I think around $75. I started to think calling might have been reasonable to see what the turn brought. Although the only card that might have scared me away would have been another 10. He would have likely pushed on the turn so its really doesn't change the result of the hand. Realistically, I'm not folding this hand. 77% on the flop and 84% on the turn.

    Flopping straights against trips always bothers me with so many outs for the boat. I'm only a 65% favourite to win the hand on the flop. Is it better to bet less to see if the board pairs by the river?
  • whenever you get your chips in with any edge in a cash game you're doing great -- it's not a tournament where there is any inherent value in preserving chips
  • its just variance grind through it
  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    whenever you get your chips in with any edge in a cash game you're doing great -- it's not a tournament where there is any inherent value in preserving chips

    I know its +ev in these situations but do most players risk their entire stack on the flop very often? in a 65/35 situation, is it better to wait until the turn to get the rest of your chips in when you are more of a favourite?
  • pokerJAH wrote: »
    I know its +ev in these situations but do most players risk their entire stack on the flop very often? in a 65/35 situation, is it better to wait until the turn to get the rest of your chips in when you are more of a favourite?

    that would make you very vulnerable to bluffing

    putting the money in when your ahead is the nutz
  • I see many players make the mistake of sacrificing EV in a cash game because they are scared of variance or don't have any bankroll left to rebuy. Similar to what GTA Poker and Redington posted, I will gladly have my entire stack in with a +0.1% edge. If I lose a +EV coin-flip, I will have enough cash behind to do a couple more full rebuys and will gladly keep doing EV-maximizing coin-flips if necessary. If you can get your opponent to put all their chips on the flop as a 35% underdog, you should be very happy unless you don't have any money left to rebuy if he sucks out.
    pokerJAH wrote: »
    I know its +ev in these situations but do most players risk their entire stack on the flop very often?
  • if you only put money in .01% edge
    you'll lose too
    i'm not much of math guy
    but i heard you need to have overall 5%+ edge to beat the rake
  • if you only put money in .01% edge
    you'll lose too
    i'm not much of math guy
    but i heard you need to have overall 5%+ edge to beat the rake

    5% is the average rake...so that is about right. Obviously if you continously play huge pots, your avg. rake will be lower than 5%.
  • Don't look at short term results....as long as you are making less mistakes at the table when playing against bad players you will clean up.

    Like Blondfish said...have a bankroll and it makes things all the easier....
  • The 5%+ edge you mention is probably referring to the skills edge needed to beat the rake in poker, which is a negative sum game. However, for a given hand, I track how much is in the pot minus the rake, then if I think it is +EV by $1 to call, then I would make the call as I would make more money in the long run than by folding.
    if you only put money in .01% edge
    you'll lose too
    i'm not much of math guy
    but i heard you need to have overall 5%+ edge to beat the rake
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