Calling with an underpair
Heres the question?
I a MTT you are in position/ SB /BB with a small pocket pair. 99 through 22. It is raised in middle position all in you have them barley covered or you are all in. Your read is they have two high cards.
Do you call?
If you loose the flip your out or crippled. Do you get involved?
I know the answer from alot of people is you have to call, but is there another strat?
I a MTT you are in position/ SB /BB with a small pocket pair. 99 through 22. It is raised in middle position all in you have them barley covered or you are all in. Your read is they have two high cards.
Do you call?
If you loose the flip your out or crippled. Do you get involved?
I know the answer from alot of people is you have to call, but is there another strat?
Comments
How close to the bubble?
1/ I would much rather be the pusher than the caller, two ways to win the pot.
2/ How can you be so sure he has 2 unmatched overs and not an over pair? Even if he showed you his AK I fold for reason # 1.
Easy fold.
As compuease said, I'd rather be pushing than calling.
Second, its a while to the bubble, and if your M is still in good shape there is no reason to risk your tournament life in this situation. I would definitely be watchfull of the villian though from this point on, and put a much better read on him later.
I really don't think so. Its still a coin flip. Here is why I ask the question.
Playing a MTT sat to another tournament. Top two get a seat. top 7 get money.
2 tables left, 7 handed at each table. I am in the SB with 99. Everyone except a few at each table is short stacked. I am average in chips. Pushing is now a option for all middle to short stacks. I have the pusher covered and it makes sense he has overcards.
I made the call....was right about the over cards....QJ off...but am left wondering if I made the right call.
Is it that obvious of a fold. This might be a hole in my game.
I had QQ, one had AK and the other AQ. A 10 on the flop K on the turn and river blank.
Do you take the coin flip with QQ knowing AK is there? Again assuming average stacks.
In your NAPC hand with a 55% chance to triple up, i'm calling.
In between is where it becomes more of a judgement/style call.
I'd call with 99/88 sometimes but fold everything else.
22 is a coin flip, 99 is quite a bit better. I'm not going out against QTo on a board of 557J7
Lets not be silly here. You don't KNOW he has overcards unless he actually shows them to you and since you are playing online we know that him showing you is not an option.
If he is shoving AJ+ and any pair you are picking up equity with 99 or 88 because you are way ahead of 22-77. If you have 22 or 33 calling is pretty bad because you are flipping at best.
not being silly. I have given you the parameters and you have less the 10 BB in your stack, but still average. Do you call. Player was niether loose or tight. Open shove the best you can be is dominating a under pair. At worst they have an overpair....although unlikely...two over cards is more than likely.
My point is this...
They way you have typed out your post leads me to believe that you have fundamental leak in your game. In this extremely common endgame situation you need to be thinking about:
- what types of hands fall into your opponents range
- how your holding fares against that range
- what price you are getting to make the call
You never know for sure if your opponent holds overcards, holds an overpair, or holds an underpair. Since you have a middling pair you need to consider the fact of whether of not you are up against TT-AA. Saying that it is unlikely is wrong, it is entirely possible you just need to figure out what percentage of the time it is true.
Why don't you figure this situation out for yourself with some of the posters here coaching your decisions?
Here is how you start. What are the blinds, what is your stack exactly, what is your opponents stack exactly and what are all of the hands that you believe you opponent shoves with in this spot?
Answer those questions first and then you will get some constructive help.
Any ace is also quite likely, imo. Meaning 99-77 go way up in value because you dominate A2-A6 while 22 and 33 are near-definite flips. If someone's shoving KQ they're doing it with A4 too.
Word to your mother
I have been play for a while now, no newbee here and have had my share of wins. I am trying to see if my decision making is correct. To answer my own poll I make the call, every time. Maybe I play this wrong. That is why I asked to show who voted for which answer.
I value the responses. I guess you are missing my point.
Ok I may be up against A rag, and 99 -77 go up in value. If you are 52 to 48% fav, do you call for your tournament/ cripple yourself / double up.
Probably not, because as mentioned I'd much rather wait to be the pusher and have some fold equity.
But, fyi, vs any broadway/any ace/any pair you are 60%/40% favorite with 99, but a 45% to 55% underdog with 22. Hence i didn't answer the poll. To actually be a favorite, thus meriting even the consideration of a call, you need to have 55+.
I also look at who is doing the pushing and do I want that player with chips. Sometimes its better to have good players with less chips then trying to race with them as well.
Like most of the posters have said I rather be pushing than calling with those hands. Also I like the fact that I can steal on the button or CO within the next couple of hands.
As for the post about Deadmoney being a noob....LMAO.....maybe you just don't know him that well. No worries he wouldn't take offence to the comment. Great guy and extremely good player.
And Caddy, Deadmoney has played all the biggest tournaments around, he's certainly no noob, although I do wonder if he's just trying to stir up some discussion with this, and he has...
Not vs a specific hand, vs that entire range. The numbers are from pokerstove.
When people post a hand on here they usually frame the question around all of the information that they have available. If you framed your question to the board in the same way as you frame the question to yourself you have a problem IMO.
Newbie's ask questions like, "I have TT and villain is a LAGtard. He shoves do I call?" This is all they think about so this is all the information they have available.
People who have been playing for a while say, " 14 left on 2 tables in a Satty. Top 2 get a seat top 7 get paid. Blinds are 500-1000 with a 100 ante. Folds to Mid-position who shoves his last 6800. He seems fairly competent but I don't have much of a read. I am in the cut-off with 99 and 7900 in my stack. Button and both blinds have just over 10K.
Is my hand good enough to call here? If not, what do I need?"
This second question will get you better responses and people may even explain a bit about their thought process to you.
Since you didn't feel like thinking about a range for our villain and still have not given stack sizes here is my answer:
In your situation I call AQ+ and 99+ in the spot you described against a total unknown. If I think he is pretty loose I may go as far as 77+ and may add AJ as well.
If you are under 10BB my first question is, "How did this happen?" because you are running out of fold equity especially if there are antes in play (which we still don't know).
My second question is if you are a long time MMT'er why have you not poker stoved a bunch of these situations for yourself yet? Playing the short stack at least competently is a must have weapon in any tournament players arsenal. You are a long way from the bubble and you are not folding into a seat with less than 10BB in your stack and you are way short for waiting for a super premium hand.
Answer 1 = This is a satellite, blinds go up quick, sometimes you find yourself in this situation.
Answer 2 = Don't remember the the exact blind level or the chip counts but just the general situation. I have shoved many times with less that two high cards.
I wonder why the fuck you are giving me so much grief! I have a question about a situation. If you don't want to answer, ignore it! Don't tell me how to phrase my question. Or is it about post count?
When you make an OP like you did in this thread you get 3 pages of "I fold" and "I call" with no reasoning behind it. If that is what you are looking for then congrats.
Myself and several others took the time to respond and ask you for more of the EXTREMELY important details required to make this decision. Like Stack sizes, blinds and your exact hand because as it has been pointed out 99 is a hell of a lot different than 22.
I honestly thought I could help improve the focus in this thread and take part in a quality discussion but if you want me to fuck off I will.
Big Mike has given you the best responses here IMO and if you don't entirely understand what he is saying I suggest you follow him up.
Thats what is what I was looking for. A quick poll to see how everyone plays this.
To easy here....I will leave it alone.
I agree. Mike thanks for the honesty and explanation.
caddy's point about posting more detail is dead (on the) money.
You're welcome.