NL 200 KK fold
(I did post this on 2+2 for a friend so I figured I would give a run through over here as well)
Cut-off is running 24/0/1.5 over 50 hands this session....I
Thoughts??
Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
SB: $89.00
Hero (BB): $148.80
UTG: $244.90
UTG+1: $236.30
MP1: $202.60
MP2: $90.70
CO: $95.85
BTN: $275.70
Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with Ks Kd
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $2, 2 folds, CO calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1, Hero raises to $8, UTG+1 calls $6, CO calls $6, 1 fold
Flop: ($26.00) Qh 3h 6c (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $8, CO calls $8, Hero calls $8
Turn: ($50.00) Js (3 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG+1 calls $15, CO raises to $79.85 all in, Hero requests TIME, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds
I also did post some analysis on 2+2 of the hand. But I will bring that in after initial observations/discussion. As always any discussion good or bad is welcomed.
Cut-off is running 24/0/1.5 over 50 hands this session....I
Thoughts??
Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
SB: $89.00
Hero (BB): $148.80
UTG: $244.90
UTG+1: $236.30
MP1: $202.60
MP2: $90.70
CO: $95.85
BTN: $275.70
Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with Ks Kd
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $2, 2 folds, CO calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1, Hero raises to $8, UTG+1 calls $6, CO calls $6, 1 fold
Flop: ($26.00) Qh 3h 6c (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $8, CO calls $8, Hero calls $8
Turn: ($50.00) Js (3 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG+1 calls $15, CO raises to $79.85 all in, Hero requests TIME, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds
I also did post some analysis on 2+2 of the hand. But I will bring that in after initial observations/discussion. As always any discussion good or bad is welcomed.
Comments
BB should be making it like $12 Pre-Flop $8 is gross with 3 limpers already involved.
Checking the flop with 2 hearts on board is ugly unless he has a read that someone is going to take a stab and then he should be chk/raising this just about always in a 3 way pot.
$15 bet into a $50 pot on the turn makes no sense.
Folding while getting 2.5-1 on his money is retarded IMO. Could be behind a set or two pair but also ahead of TPTK or some type of combo draw here. The price is SOOOO right that you can be wrong more than half the time and still be profitable.
The only concern is the deep stack who is yet to act who might have a set of 6's or 3's but we didn't start the hand with a full stack anyways so we are not deep enough to make hero folds.
I get it in here in this spot but I would never play the hand this way in the first place.
preflop = bigger obv
flop = bet...and for some bizarre reason if you do decide to check you should be check raising
turn = huh?????????????? you played the hand so horribly you deserve to lose your whole stack
i think you need to go thru each street and explain your thought process
This was my deduction of the hand for my buddy (as I was coaching him at the time, so I was trying not to make all the decisions for him and help him fill in leaks with hand reading/position etc)
MP is a LAGtard...he had won 2 previous hands against this opponenet and would be the flop no matter what came or who originated the preflop action. So the check on the flop was to induce a bet.
I think previous posts are correct that there should have been a c/r there, but the thinking here is because of the flush draw board, do we want to create larger implied odds with just one pair??
The turn lead out was to see where we are at. The flat call by LAG MP is no worries but it is the shove by the CO that concerns me. I have personally seen this play a lot of times and it definitely smelled like at least 2 pair.
And once again I would have played this hand differently as I bet the flop at least 3/4 pot and take it down there because I have only one pair and no hearts in my hand.
Like I said I was sweating a buddy to help him out and based on the way he played his hand we are looking to see what can be deducted. Thanks for the responses so far.
Hate the check on the flop and the call was worse IMO. I would have at least raised the 8 to at least 30.
If he flat calls that.....your dead and check it down if you can.
So raise preflop, this is exactly where you want him to call on then for him to get it in on that flop.
so when the flush card doesn't get there you fold anyways?
if you were there you should be bashing this players head into the desk to ensure he remembers what a bad play it was on the flop...
if the flush gets there you fold
if someone pushes to protect against a flush you fold
what are hoping to check it down?
friends don't let friends play weak tight
bet more preflop
bet or c/r flop way bigger
as played you should call to remind you what a dumb play it was every time you look up this hh
otherwise tell your friend to put on a skirt and swish around for us a little
when you take this kind of passive line with KK, you are trying to induce bluff.
you got what you want it. you have to call here.
otherwise just fold KK preflop man.
this is only acceptable if you have a good read on villian.
With a possible flush draw from multiple opponents, I would have bet the flop to protect my overpair. Instead of calling the $8 bets, I would have raised.
Whenever you mention implied odds, it doesn't make sense to me how it applies. With $42 already in the pot, the stack-to-pot-ratio is less than 2 for the CO so you shouldn't be so concerned about implied odds when the remaining stacks are no longer deep. If you put your overpair as ahead of the range of your opponents, then you maximize your profits by raising instead of playing so passively. IMHO, keeping the pot small or "small ball" strategies applies more to deep stack tournaments instead of a cash game, where you should maximize your EV at every decision point.
Having misplayed all the decisions so far, I don't understand the turn bet of only $15 into the $50 pot. When the CO goes all-in, since you think that you are ahead of the UTG+1 (not "MP") LAGtard, then you need less than 29% probability that your overpair is good to make calling correct. In other words, unless I have a good enough read that I am over 70% positive that CO has two pair or a set, then I would make the crying call.
P.S. I haven't played 1/2 NL online yet, but is this bad table typical even at that level? Why didn't the hero and half the table top up to the $200 maximum buy-in?
I was also quite happy to see 2+2 rang in with a total butcher job of the hand and basically I was told to quit poker....gg my friend (talk about taking one for the team...geez...now they think I am horrible too...lol)
My friend was short stacking so that was also a problem as he is not fully rolled for that level and was taking a shot so that also adds to the fun of the hand as he is being results orientated and not long term thinking.
To add to my analysis I also told him to join a training site and watch some videos as he is a predominantly live player, the online jungle plays way differently then live and he has to adjust to it.
low stake forum give a much better advise.
tell your friend jumping straight into 200NL is a beginner mistake, he should try to beat the micro first.
ya, but how many table are you sitting ^^
1 table, not HUD needed
You received some good advice for your buddy. If 2+2 actually said 'quit poker' instead of 'gg my friend' then they got something wrong
I played a bit like scared money when I torched most of my roll taking shots at 5/10 NL on Stars. Yeah I was way ahead and they were paying me quite well but you can't survive the beats. I don't perceive a true shot being taken in this example. I think it's not too bad to buy in short when taking a shot but the gun either jammed or needed a cleaning.
I have no idea what the above post is trying to say.