Introduction
Hey guys, I've been playing limit poker since 09/08/04, at PartyPoker (mdterps23). I initially started at the 2/4 tables playing ten handed, that didn't really work out. I lost my initial bankroll of $165. Waited about six days to play again. (All packed tables, w/ 10 people, either 1/2 or 2/4.
Then played with a fresh $140. I cashed out $450. I lost my entire bankroll at the time of $200. (In this time when I was cashing out chips, I was playing 1/2 at 6 max tables. Then with my newfound confidence and my roommate winning some tourneys on my computer I went on to play 3/6 (parts of his bankroll, and catching no cards). Riverbeats, doesn't really matter that I had pocket Kings and trip 3s and 5s are caught on the river.
So, I've shown myself that I can win 1/2 tables with (6max), how do I know when I can move on to 2/4? And should I look for small tables and leave as they get large?
Then all in one night lost all but $30 (overall).
My bankroll is at $0, I give it another run starting Friday.
Then played with a fresh $140. I cashed out $450. I lost my entire bankroll at the time of $200. (In this time when I was cashing out chips, I was playing 1/2 at 6 max tables. Then with my newfound confidence and my roommate winning some tourneys on my computer I went on to play 3/6 (parts of his bankroll, and catching no cards). Riverbeats, doesn't really matter that I had pocket Kings and trip 3s and 5s are caught on the river.
So, I've shown myself that I can win 1/2 tables with (6max), how do I know when I can move on to 2/4? And should I look for small tables and leave as they get large?
Then all in one night lost all but $30 (overall).
My bankroll is at $0, I give it another run starting Friday.
Comments
My advice is play 100 hours at a level before moving up. So, play 100 hours at $1-2. If you are a winner after 100 hours try moving up a level. 100 hours is not, statistically speaking, enough to prove you are winner, but I think it is long enough to give yourself a good feel for where you are at -- particularly if you are self-critical and working hard on getting better.
Here's something to consider.. I've seen a lot of charts of peoples bankrolls growing over time and the thing to notice is that you are practically guarenteed to run through a -100BB+ swing even as a highly profitable player. Since you seem to sit at tables underfunded it doesn't shock me to see you bust out.
I've played a lot at PartyPoker at all of the levels you have mentioned. The $1/$2, $1/2(6 max), $2/$4, $2/$4(6 max), and $3/$6 games at PartyPoker are all very different, probably quite a bit more different than most people would expect. Sticking to learning one game at a time would probably be helpful in the poker learning process.
Happens all the time. This is especially true playing short-handed, since your opponents are more often correct in chasing marginal hands. (Well, I probably shouldn't say "chasing"... you play more marginal hands post-flop because they turn out to be the best hand more often than usual.) This is why you need a *large* bankroll relative to the limits you're playing, particularly (as Dave alluded to) short-handed.
I'm not sure what you mean by the second part. If you find that you prefer and are better at short-handed (i.e. 6 max) games, I don't understand why you'd have to look for "small games" at the $2/$4 level. IIRC, there should be 6 max games available at most PartyPoker limits, including $2/$4.
ScottyZ
stopped doing it for a while b/c no1 would sit vs me HU....i was well known around most 2-4 players on stars for a bit, so i faded back started doin some sngs, and mtts and now ill prob go back and go do it again
I've read the Limit Chapter in Super System. Also, I've read Winning Low Limit Poker by Lee Jones. I've skimmed through Theory of Poker and plan on adding some to the library, any reccomendations?
I have been playing for many hours, probably safe to say close to 100. What skills do you think are learned at the 1/2 and 2/4 tables. Are there any differences as far as skill between 1/2 & 2/4 tables. What sorts of things can you suggest from experience?
Lastly, what are correct bankroll requirements for any game?
Thanks!
Preferably, 300 BB(Big Bets), that way, you can handle any bad run of cards, and it isnt going to bankrupt you.1-2 = $600, 2-4 = $1200 (preferably) but most people wont follow it and play at levels that their bankroll doesnt really allow
-Read TOP carefully
-Do apply WLLH strategy to full 1-2 and 2-4 games, but not to short-handed games
-"Winning at Poker" by Dave Scharf is a great book for the low-limit beginning player
-Don't post long passages in italics since it makes it hard to read.
You'll generally find much tighter pre-flop play moving from 1/2 to 2/4, and much more aggressive play (pre-flop and beyond) moving from 2/4 to 3/6.
I'm definitely speaking relatively here. The PartyPoker 3/6 is generally still quite loose and quite passive compared to "standard" poker.
ScottyZ
What is WLLH?
Thank you for that. I'd consider myself a moderately profitable online player (there is a self-critical trait in the mix). I swung negative that recent day when I decided to try 3 $1/2 NL tables at PS. At least it stretched the mind.
Winning Low-Limit Hold'em (2nd Edition)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/104-8523188-9562301
Based on your repsonses/questions I would have to guess you're looking at Poker as an easy/quick way to make money. I feel the impatience in your approach, jumping back and forth in limits, looking for the "great" book that will make all the difference in the world -- basically looking for that one thing that you're good at, that will allow you to roll in the dough.
I love the tag line of one RGP poster, which says "Money flows to the patient". Well, it does require skill and luck, but patience key to winning.
I agree with Dave's comment that you need to be able to look at your play with a critical eye. I'm not certain that would be the best approach, based on your "style". One thing I think will work for you, is to try and figure out why you're winning when you do. What is it that makes you better than your opponents. They've likely read books, played thousands of hands, posted hands. It's easy to assume every opponent is just a dumb player that wants to have some fun and give you their money. But I know that's not true. After all, I actually play 1/2 six handed and 2/4 to build my roll after a cash out. What do you bring to the table that others don't? If you can't answer that, then you won't make money.
Personally, I feel it's a crime that Lee Jones book is priced the way it is. It is by far the most impressive book I've read, and almost every holdem concept is covered -- maybe not in great minute detail, but it is. If someone pays very close attention to every last detail in the book, you can use just that book to get to the advanced level. Because of that one book, I've made a good buck -- it just doesn't seem fair that Lee only got a few bucks out of the deal.
Good luck at the tables.
Magi
Personally, I think you are rushing and need to log a seriously large amount of hands before leaving the realm of WLLH (10k-> 20k).
Lol.. 100 hours is nothing. At 50 hands / hour you've only played 5K hands in your entire poker career.