To CHOP, or not to CHOP?
Interesting article on cardplayer this morning, about chopping.
The Art of the Chop -- Poker Negotiations - Poker News - CardPlayer.com
Some players don't like to chop, especially if they are the chip leader and/or believe they can outplay their opponents. Others do chop, guaranteeing them some cash that is most likely to their own advantage.
I've never considered chopping too much in the past, outside The Hill that is, but I'm finding that I'm getting deeper and deeper in online tourneys and the potential to ask for or be asked for a chop of the winnings might be attractive. But I really don't know the right way to go about it. Is asking for a chip by chip count and divide as per percentage the best way, or is there an better way? What about negotiating for more than an equal share, how does one go about doing that? What do you negotiate with if you're one of the low stacks?
If you considered the money to be substantial, life changing even to the smallest degree, would you negotiate or play it out? Making the final table can be rewarding in of itself, but if a chop is requested, how do you get the most payout for your time?
Buddy, I know you have a formula to calculate, perhaps you can share it as well as your thoughts.
The Art of the Chop -- Poker Negotiations - Poker News - CardPlayer.com
Some players don't like to chop, especially if they are the chip leader and/or believe they can outplay their opponents. Others do chop, guaranteeing them some cash that is most likely to their own advantage.
I've never considered chopping too much in the past, outside The Hill that is, but I'm finding that I'm getting deeper and deeper in online tourneys and the potential to ask for or be asked for a chop of the winnings might be attractive. But I really don't know the right way to go about it. Is asking for a chip by chip count and divide as per percentage the best way, or is there an better way? What about negotiating for more than an equal share, how does one go about doing that? What do you negotiate with if you're one of the low stacks?
If you considered the money to be substantial, life changing even to the smallest degree, would you negotiate or play it out? Making the final table can be rewarding in of itself, but if a chop is requested, how do you get the most payout for your time?
Buddy, I know you have a formula to calculate, perhaps you can share it as well as your thoughts.
Comments
I would not want a fair chop, I would want an unfair one - like this one from last night:
3 handed, all are in the money. Payouts $170,$100,$70.
I flop top pair K w KT and go all in. Get called by big stack JJ, who runs off a straight to knock me out. Fine.
Chipstacks are now ~1500 for the lowstack guy (solid player), at least T13000 for the big stack (fish). Fish offers lowstack $100 to stop now. He's like "uh, I'm getting that anyway." Fish counteroffers with $130 and lowstack can't say "Deal!" fast enough.
I just hope that guy comes back next month.
wait for it. wait for it... there!
ya like he going to do a deal when he is that far ahead and he knows he will win.
ICM...is that a stand alone or does it have to work with something like PokerTracker or PokerStove??
Online, it would work fine, but how do you calculate the ICM for a live tourney?
The hard part of course is figuring out the fair value of your chips, which the article neglected to do. ICM can be used online to figure this out, but it is impractical to calculate it in a live tournament. A less accurate but simpler method is called the Proportional Chip Count Formula. You take out the money that each player is guaranteed, then distribute the remaining money in proportion to the player's chips. In Big Mike's example, the fish and the shortstack were guaranteed to win at least $100 each, so there's $70 left to allocate according to the chip proportion. Let's say the fish has 13,500 of the 15,000 chips in play, so he should have asked for at least [(13,500 / 15,000) * $70] + $100 = $163. The shortstack's chips had a fair value of only [(1500 / 15,000) * $70] + $100 = $103, so the $130 he got from the fish was too good to turn down, even if he thought he was a better player.
I was the unofficial deals consultant at the WPT Fallsview satellites and Blue Water Classic final table, so if I am in the casino while you are in a final table, come see me first if you want to make a deal.
IF that were to EVER occur, you will certainly know about it Buddy! Hell, if that were to EVER occur, the WORLD would know about it!!
Trying to do some research now on ICM, and will look into the Proportional Chip Count formula as well for future reference.