An odd hand: wwjd?

stpboystpboy
in Online Poker
What would Jesus do? 3rd hand of the tournament. No reads or info on any players.

PokerStars Game: Tournament $3.00+$0.25 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/12/02 20:30:52 ET
Table '124525628 1' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: gipper2010 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: weaponsx (1440 in chips)
Seat 3: Mattuschak (1440 in chips)
Seat 4: AGENT1972 (1480 in chips)
Seat 5: Iwishclover (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: BrainDonor (1640 in chips)
Mattuschak: posts small blind 10
AGENT1972: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Iwishclover [Jd As]
Iwishclover: raises 40 to 60
BrainDonor: folds
gipper2010: calls 60
weaponsx: calls 60
Mattuschak: folds
AGENT1972: folds
*** FLOP *** [4s Js 4h]
Iwishclover: bets 200
gipper2010: calls 200
Ok, spade draw?
weaponsx: folds
*** TURN *** [4s Js 4h] [6d]
Iwishclover: bets 400
gipper2010: calls 400
What the eff is he calling with here?
*** RIVER *** [4s Js 4h 6d] [Kh]
Iwishclover: checks
gipper2010: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Iwishclover: shows [Jd As] (two pair, Jacks and Fours)

Without looking at below, what does Villain have?





gipper2010: shows [Qd Qh] (two pair, Queens and Fours)
gipper2010 collected 1410 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1410 | Rake 0
Board [4s Js 4h 6d Kh]
Seat 1: gipper2010 showed [Qd Qh] and won (1410) with two pair, Queens and Fours
Seat 2: weaponsx (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Mattuschak (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: AGENT1972 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Iwishclover showed [Jd As] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Fours
Seat 6: BrainDonor folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Comments

  • westside8westside8
    Q-j, j-10?
  • Big MikeBig Mike
    77-TT, or even QQ if he's very passive, or waiting to a safe river to raise.
  • MonteroyMonteroy
    My guess would be a pocket pair, and by that I mean it could be any pair from AA to 22 that does not work with the board directly. Either that or a flush draw. I probably play it pretty much as you did and have no idea what to expect at showdown given the buy in. I would think I win if he checks the river, but I have seen quads/full houses check when last to act as well.

    My assumption given that you posted it is that you lost, so probably something silly like AA or something.
  • actyperactyper
    Small pp
  • stpboystpboy
    Yeah, this hand was completely bizarre and I think considering how early into the tournament it was and the low buy-in I could have very easily lost more. I had the guy on KJ by the turn and when the K fell I figured I had to check-call or check fold depending on the size of his bet.

    When he checked the river I had to believe I was good. He didn't even think about it though, he insta checked. I don't think he played it very well.

    stp
  • Big MikeBig Mike
    He missed value on the end, but I don't know that he played it really poorly otherwise. If he puts your utg range at something like JJ-AA, AJ+ he's really either way ahead or way behind. Likely he didn't want to race early in the tourney against AK so didn't want to risk a reraise preflop.

    He probably felt he could get you to value town yourself with hands like AJ, and try bluffing with AQ/AK when he's well ahead and a raise by him would cause you to fold. He's scared to raise because he knows (correctly) that he'll be put into a really tough situation when you reraise JJ, KK, AA.

    When you check the K river, he must know he's likely ahead but without a read on you he doesn't want to risk getting bluff/checkraised off his hand. He may have felt getting a showdown against you early was worth the extra chips he may have won on the end (remembering you would fold most of the hands that didn't beat him). Against AJ specifically he played very poorly, but against your unknown entire utg range it might not be so bad.

    Did he end up proving himself later to be a very passive weak opponent or did he end up switching gears and playing better?
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Big Mike wrote: »
    He missed value on the end, but I don't know that he played it really poorly otherwise. If he puts your utg range at something like JJ-AA, AJ+ he's really either way ahead or way behind. Likely he didn't want to race early in the tourney against AK so didn't want to risk a reraise preflop.

    He probably felt he could get you to value town yourself with hands like AJ, and try bluffing with AQ/AK when he's well ahead and a raise by him would cause you to fold. He's scared to raise because he knows (correctly) that he'll be put into a really tough situation when you reraise JJ, KK, AA.

    When you check the K river, he must know he's likely ahead but without a read on you he doesn't want to risk getting bluff/checkraised off his hand. He may have felt getting a showdown against you early was worth the extra chips he may have won on the end (remembering you would fold most of the hands that didn't beat him). Against AJ specifically he played very poorly, but against your unknown entire utg range it might not be so bad.

    Did he end up proving himself later to be a very passive weak opponent or did he end up switching gears and playing better?
    nice post. caddy, when did you switch nicks?
  • Big MikeBig Mike
    pkrfce9 wrote: »
    nice post. caddy, when did you switch nicks?

    Is cadillac known for passive play, or just for defending questionable play by others?:)
    Note that I'm not saying I would play the hand this way if I were the villain.
  • westside8westside8
    Big Mike wrote: »
    He missed value on the end, but I don't know that he played it really poorly otherwise. If he puts your utg range at something like JJ-AA, AJ+ he's really either way ahead or way behind. Likely he didn't want to race early in the tourney against AK so didn't want to risk a reraise preflop.

    He probably felt he could get you to value town yourself with hands like AJ, and try bluffing with AQ/AK when he's well ahead and a raise by him would cause you to fold. He's scared to raise because he knows (correctly) that he'll be put into a really tough situation when you reraise JJ, KK, AA.

    When you check the K river, he must know he's likely ahead but without a read on you he doesn't want to risk getting bluff/checkraised off his hand. He may have felt getting a showdown against you early was worth the extra chips he may have won on the end (remembering you would fold most of the hands that didn't beat him). Against AJ specifically he played very poorly, but against your unknown entire utg range it might not be so bad.

    Did he end up proving himself later to be a very passive weak opponent or did he end up switching gears and playing better?

    I think you're looking too much into a play by an unknown in a $3 tournament (I can't say anything though, I was playing $3 earlier yesterday)
  • actyperactyper
    Exactly. If your playing QQ passively on a J high board, you're playing it very wrong in a $3 tournament.
  • Big MikeBig Mike
    westside8 wrote: »
    I think you're looking too much into a play by an unknown in a $3 tournament (I can't say anything though, I was playing $3 earlier yesterday)

    Yeah, I was going to say that, but stpboy was playing it too, right?
    I mean, that play in isolation could be by a weak passive fish, or an expert (except the river). At that level I would expect the former, but that's why I asked the follow up question.
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