Couting Straight and Flush Outs.

Your playing at a 9 handed table. Its just you and one opponent on the flop you hold 2 spades, the board has 2 spades aswell. Most people count their outs as 9 spade outs to make their flush hand. Since the table has 9 players the probibility of your oponent holding at least 1 spade and some of the other players having folded some spades is pretty good. So when playing at a fuller table should you compinsate when couting flush or str8 outs by saying only 7 or 8 more outs to the spade flush? thanks

Comments

  • No...only discount cards you can see (your own, the board, and exposed cards if any)
  • westside8 wrote: »
    No...only discount cards you can see (your own, the board, and exposed cards if any)

    Correct.

    An unseen card is an unseen card, whether it's still in the deck or if it was in another opponent's hand.
    Now if a guy goes " I folded 2 spades" well that's different:).
  • Johnith wrote: »
    Since the table has 9 players the probibility of your oponent holding at least 1 spade and some of the other players having folded some spades is pretty good.

    absolutely wrong; ,maybe all the other players folded spades (so there are none left) or none of the players had spades. How do you determine which scenerio is correct? based on known cards only.

    If you have over cards, maybe you have more outs as well?
  • If you haven't noticed any 7's or deuces on the board for a while you should start playing 7/2.

    Since they havent come up for a while the odds are that they will appear more frequently.
  • As to the flush and straight outs: Yes you can do it that way... but hear me out.

    Let's just look at the flush draw.

    The "outs" system considers the chances the card you want is coming versus all the cards that you can't see. So after the flop you have seen 5 cards leaving 47 unseen. The odds of catching one of the 9 remaining spades on the turn is calculated in this system as 9/47 = 19%.

    If you want to discount all the flush cards that are in other peoples hands you can't use the above system. If there are 9 players you can calculate the odds of each player having a flush card (about 3.5 flush cards gone).... BUT then you have to discount all those hands in play. You have to take 18 cards away from the 47. So you end up with 5.5/29 = 19%.

    So you can see that it's the same odds. If you calculate those flush cards away from what is at the table you have to remove those hands from the calculation as well. It ends up being a wash. That's why the outs system is used... it's nice and simple and leads to some simple math after the flop (4x rule and 2x rule).




    Now as for the 7 2 comment yes you can do that. Sometimes online I will track this and start playing cards that have been absent a long time. It seems to work. Given enough events things will trend back to thier averages... they have to. But over a finite period of events they won't neccessarily. I use this in BlackJack too. It's a near 50/50 game so if I go on a long winning streak I reduce my bets to the minimum. Conversly if I have been on a long losing streak I start upping my bets.
  • Now as for the 7 2 comment yes you can do that

    Wat
  • Lol, I knew that would get a response :). I wouldn't ever play that way for money. I am talking about for fun. And certainly not 7 and 2 hehe... I was just commenting on the math ;).

    If I haven't seen a K come on the flop for the last 20 hands and I am sitting there with K 9 I might see a raise I might otherwise not have played.
  • Double wat?? :confused: I have heard so many gamboooling myths but I have learnt that the gambler won't believe logical explanations anyway so I don't bother to tap the tank anymore. It is like when somebody whines to me for the millionth time, "I hate playing against donkeys who keep making bad calls. I only want to play against good players who respect my raises." :rolleyes:
    Sometimes online I will track this and start playing cards that have been absent a long time. It seems to work.
    :
    If I haven't seen a K come on the flop for the last 20 hands and I am sitting there with K 9 I might see a raise I might otherwise not have played.
  • "I hate playing against donkeys who keep making bad calls. I only want to play against good players who respect my raises." :rolleyes:


    yes and???????? what is sooooooooo wrong saying this more so when your on jokerstars, i miss playing against good players since their are none online anymore, would looooooooooove to play against people who know what the f!@# a fold button is.:)
  • Case closed, your honour!

    BlondeFish muttering to self:
    "Don't tap the aquarium.
    Don't tap the aquarium.
    Don't tap the aquarium.
    Don't tap the aquarium...."
    :-X
    philliivey wrote: »
    ??? what is sooooooooo wrong saying this more so when your on jokerstars, i miss playing against good players since their are none online anymore, would looooooooooove to play against people who know what the f!@# a fold button is.
  • hehehehehehe:), knew that would get you in a frenzy :0

    p.s.

    the wife let you go to vegas again:p

    BlondeFish wrote: »
    Case closed, your honour!

    BlondeFish muttering to self:
    "Don't tap the aquarium.
    Don't tap the aquarium.
    Don't tap the aquarium.
    Don't tap the aquarium...." :-X
  • Let me try to rephrase. In a marginal situation where I could go either way I sometimes use info like this to tip the balance. Its not a major factor in decision making... Not by a long shot.
  • I believe the "Screw it, I might get lucky" button is a new feature at AwesomePoker.com. I personally like this feature, and will spend more time there in the future.:D
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