WSOP Final 9 getting taxed

Not that I'm planning to win millions anytime soon but just curious if Cardplayer got their information right?

I am aware you would have a certain portion held back back the casino, 30% as it happened to me and I had to hire an accountant to get it back, but they're claiming provincial tax as well?

"Two Canadians then finished fifth and sixth: Scott Montgomery of Perth, Ontario and Darus Suharto of Toronto. The tax treaty between the U.S. and Canada calls for 30 percent of the prize money to be withheld by the IRS.

That puts Montgomery’s IRS bill at $929,000 (for winning $3,096,768) and Suharto’s at $725,569 (for winning $2,418,562). Montgomery will owe about $491,000 more to his provincial government."


Governments Take Huge Bite out of WSOP Final Table Pool - Poker News - CardPlayer.com

Comments

  • What, you thought they'd keep the whole thing? If you think those two got screwed, take a gander a little further down the Forum, and see how Eastgate takes it prison style.
  • That puts Montgomery’s IRS bill at $929,000 (for winning $3,096,76 and Suharto’s at $725,569 (for winning $2,418,562). Montgomery will owe about $491,000 more to his provincial government."

    The tax that the US gov't takes off the top (for a canadian) is applied as tax credits to whatever tax the canadian gov't wants on the money. Theres no way in hell that he will owe provincial tax on top of the 700k..

    It seems stupid to me that they continue to host the world series of poker in places that heavily tax the winners. Why don't they move it to the caribbean or something?
  • The tax monsters that help feed governments from all around the globe feasted heavily on the World Series of Poker main event's final table participants. Out of the $32,731,585 collected prize pool that was distributed to the final nine players, about $14,793,416 went to governments from around the world.

    LOL $10K ME Donkaments are +EV for a very tiny minority of people.

    The average guy buying into a Step 1 on Stars is making a truly awful investment.
  • So they will get charged PST? I had always believed that casino winnings are not taxed in Canada.
    BBC Z wrote: »
    The tax that the US gov't takes off the top (for a canadian) is applied as tax credits to whatever tax the canadian gov't wants on the money. Theres no way in hell that he will owe provincial tax on top of the 700k..

    It seems stupid to me that they continue to host the world series of poker in places that heavily tax the winners. Why don't they move it to the caribbean or something?
  • I was trying to say that the 30% withheld by the states would cover anything that the canadian gov't would come sniffing for. but what do I know, I just play a smart guy on tv.
  • I think Russ Fox's point is that as a professional, Montgomery's combined federal-provincial tax rate is 46.41%. On his U$3.1 million win, his Canadian taxes will be 46% or $1.4 million. The IRS withheld U$929K, so he may be able to deduct that, but he will still owe around $500,000 to Canada Revenue Agency!

    For Canadian recreational players like me, it becomes important to ask for receipts of gambling losses if you play any US tournament where the prizes can exceed $5,000. Otherwise, one could have one lucky big win, but don't have enough provable gambling losses so almost 30% of your winnings will stay with the IRS. I noticed several players asking the Venetian for receipts, so I later requested a couple of receipts myself.
    BBC Z wrote: »
    The tax that the US gov't takes off the top (for a canadian) is applied as tax credits to whatever tax the canadian gov't wants on the money. Theres no way in hell that he will owe provincial tax on top of the 700k.
  • LOL $10K ME Donkaments are +EV for a very tiny minority of people.

    The average guy buying into a Step 1 on Stars is making a truly awful investment.

    This raises the question.. If you JUST finish in the money does your 'win' even cover the taxes owed and give you any money above your buy-in back?? Heck, would you even get your buy-in back?? I would hate to put out 10k, make the money, go out just after the bubble and take home $9856 or some silly thing..
  • The following is my understanding, but hopefully, recent US winners such as SirWatts and Choron will make corrections. Let's say that a forumer finished just ITM at the WSOP for ~$20,000. I believe that Rio will withhold 30% of the full $20K (not net $10K?) or $6000. You can apply for a refund directly or through a refund management service, submitting proof that you have gambling losses that covers the tax (including $10K tournament receipt?). If you can get a 100% refund, then you end up with your full win, minus any expenses, e.g., an effective rake of an extra ~7.5% if you paid RMS' 25% commission.

    However, if you don't have any proof of gambling losses or your win is so big or you procrastinate forever like many poker players, then the withholding can become as high as an extra 30% rake, where you only get to keep as low as 70% of your win. For example, let's say that a forumer gets lucky and wins $1 million at the WSOP and has accumulated tournament receipts of $5K for the year plus the $10K buy-in. I believe that you can get a refund of not more than $15K of the withheld tax, while the IRS keeps $285,000 of YOUR win permanently. :(

    ReefAquarium is right that both the PokerStars Steps SNGs and US $10K events would be -EV for almost all Canadians. If you want to take a shot at a big buy-in event, you would be better off playing at the WPT NAPC, BCPC or any Canadian tournament instead of travelling to a US or other tournament with -EV unrecoverable taxes. If I ever get lucky and win a satellite to a $10K US event, I would follow ReefAquarium's advice of taking the cash option, and I would use the cash for Canadian or other tax-free tournaments - or hookers and blow!
    zunni74 wrote: »
    If you JUST finish in the money does your 'win' even cover the taxes owed and give you any money above your buy-in back?? Heck, would you even get your buy-in back?? I would hate to put out 10k, make the money, go out just after the bubble and take home $9856 or some silly thing..
  • BlondeFish wrote: »
    For Canadian recreational players like me, it becomes important to ask for receipts of gambling losses if you play any US tournament where the prizes can exceed $5,000.

    Does this apply to cash game losses which may be difficult to track? If the cage will give you a receipt for your chips, the US government would likely accept it. Can you only deduct the cost of other tournaments during the year of your win or is it cumulative losses?

    Here is an idea if you happen to hit it big at a US tournament and get stuck paying withholding tax. Just buy a seat into other large buy-in tournaments and then sell them to another player for a slight discount. You will get most of the buy-in back plus be able to reduce your withholding tax accordingly. In theory, I would think this should work and you should be ahead.
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