Legal Poker Rules for Ontario
Hi Everyone,
I am new to this forum and was wondering about legal rules of hosting poker game in Ontario. Are we allowed to host cash games? Are there limits to what can and can’t be done. Last thing I want is that RCMP kicking down the door.
YinYan
I am new to this forum and was wondering about legal rules of hosting poker game in Ontario. Are we allowed to host cash games? Are there limits to what can and can’t be done. Last thing I want is that RCMP kicking down the door.
YinYan
Comments
An entrance fee by wikipedia is consider
a type of rake. But how about a fee to
pay for the area that the game is being
hosted without any profit on top? Is it
illegal to charge player a fee for entering
game if it going to hosting cost?
YinYan
In Ontario there is no way to legally make $$$ off of a poker game/tourney other than playing. Whether that $$$ comes in the form of a rake, a hosting fee, or for operating costs, it IS NOT LEGAL. At least, that is what the arresting officer will tell you . . .
Good luck.
just trying to understand that all.
Seems to be clear to me now.
YinYan
• Have a guest list.
• Sign people in
• Charge 10.00 parking per person.
• Don’t have a cash game.
• Have a contract signed with the building you are renting with private party, invited guests only.
• Have fun!
Prophet 22
PS no one will bother you even when the cops come with the ambulance because of medical reason to take someone to the hospital.
Really says who? You? West Side Poker Club ran for 3 years, gave out thousands and thousands of dollars. Also had thousands and thousands of people attend including cops who played and were there when there was medical emergencies.
Show me where the law states I can't host a private party on private property and charge people a parking fee! I challenge you 13 cards you seem to know so much.
Prophet 22
Zithal's going to have to setup a ring out back of Bristol street...
Mark
I witnessed the 911 folks at this past event to attend an emergency and nothing happened!
13cards wrote: "By the written laws, even a "friendly" wager for money placed between two friends on who will win the next round of golf/catch the biggest fish/call heads or tails correctly is, technically, ILLEGAL!!! Nearly all stag games, home games, bar games, bar pools, "squares", etc. also fall into this category."
Criminal Code of Canada - Part VII Disorderly Houses, Gaming and Betting states the definition a "common gaming house" (which is ILLEGAL) with EXCEPTIONS:
A place is NOT a common gaming house with these exceptions:
1) "NO RAKE"
the whole or any portion of the bets on or proceeds from games played therein is not directly or indirectly paid to the keeper thereof.
2) "RAKE is authorized or licenced by the Attorney General or other person with authority specified by the Attorney General (such as casinos)."
no fee is charged to persons for the right or privilege of participating in the games played therein other than under the authority of and in accordance with the terms of a licence issued by the Attorney General of the province in which the place is situated or by such other person or authority in the province as may be specified by the Attorney General thereof.
In other words "NO RAKE" makes a home or event "rake free" poker game legal.
The parking fee is tricky because any fee associated in a poker event could be considered RAKE. In my opinion (not fact), I say it isn't rake as the fee is strictly for parking purposes in a private event and not as a fee for players to participate in the poker game. but then again you can say if you don't pay the parking fee, you can't enter? so take a cab or car pool to avoid the parking fee...lol.
Part VII of the Canadian Criminal Code has the laws about gaming, betting, and gambling. Section 197 (sub-sections 1-4) defines the terms used in the Law.
"Common betting house": This is where people get together and play games. There is no 'House' collecting and paying bets, but rather a group of people playing against each other in some game of skill and chance. The host does not collect and pay bets, nor does the host collect a 'rake', as described below.
"Common gaming house": This is where people are enabled to conduct gaming against a second party. Take Home Craps, for example, where individual players play against the host, or House. When somebody's home is used to for somebody to arrange a game where he or she collects and pays bets, it falls under this definition. Some home gamblers refer to a 'rake', where the host collects a small percentage of all pots to help pay for hosting expenses. Use of 'rakes' also falls under this category.
"Disorderly house": A general term used to describe either a common betting house, a common gaming house.
"Game": The game itself, complete with rules and conditions.
"Keeper": The keeper of the house is the person whose name is on the lease, or is helping the person whose name is on the lease, or is acting on behalf of the person whose name is on the lease.
"Onus": If somebody is accused of being the keeper of a disorderly house, it's their job to convince a court otherwise. Even if the game is only started at one house and finished at another (ie. long game of Trips to Win), that first house is still a disorderly house.
Section 198 (only one sub-section) outlines what presumptions can be made by the Law when police officers show up at your door under the suspicion that yours is a disorderly house. They are allowed to assume that yours is such a house if one of the following things happen:
#1: The police officer was prevented or delayed from entering your house.
#2: The police officer did not find a game-in-progress, but did find enough gaming equipment (ie. poker chips, Craps tabletop, home roulette wheel, etc.) to make it clear enough.
#3: The police officer did not find a game-in-progress, but did find gaming equipment on the persons of people in the house (i.e. poker chips in everybody's pockets).
#4: The police officer did not charge you while you were found in the disorderly house, but after the keeper was convicted and it was proven that you were there, you can be charged.
Section 199 (sub-sections 1-7) outlines the procedure in dealing with a disorderly house.
Search: The keeper of the disorderly house and anybody in it may be apprehended with or without a warrant, if the officer can prove that it is a disorderly house.
Property: The court reserves the right to keep and/or dispose of any evidence (ie. gaming equipment) that it finds in the disorderly house.
Section 201 (only one sub-section) states that the keeper of the disorderly house and everybody found in it can be punished with a maximum sentence of two years. The word of the law does not specify whether or not the stakes of the game would have an influence on the amount of the punishment.
Think about it guys, if there was a loophole / legal way to do this - people would be doing it.
Bottom line, the law is made to protect the interests (profits) of the casinos. ANY game that profit is made on is illegal, be it for private gains, or charity or whatever.
Is it silly? To some, sure... but somewhere along the line someone made it a law
Mark
I have, they have been and participated. And you never read about me in the news.
You argue based on what you think you know. Not what is actually law.
Prophet 22
Just to add to this point...
The way it was described to me back when the KWSOP was going to run was that it doesn't have to be 'profit' it only has to be 'gain'. Sooo.... You could have went ahead and purchased 100 cases of pop and sold only one of those cases. Since you 'gained' by selling anything as a result of the poker game then it is illegal. I'm not sure if this is completely accurate but this was how it was explained to me when I spoke with the OPP illegal gambling division.
They told me they would shut the KWSOP down and I could fight it in court if I wanted....
For the record though, according to how things were explained to me, I think the West Side events were illegal. They were fun though
stp
btw, do you think there would be any legal issues if I didn't make a profit?
Now I gotta call BULLYSHIAT on all that. You just haven't been busted... YET.
The warehouse would be profiting by allowing its' facilities to be used for gaming.
Just like they never bust an underground club on their first visit, they infiltrate and learn all about the game before they come in sirens wailing.
It's called building a case...
Prophet 22
This is the irony of poker in Ontario; I was invited to a 'charity' event over the weekend, being put on by 'cops'. Chances of the OPP showing up to this event......NIL. btw, I will likely playing in the event, more so because it is a great structure, and very little chance of any problems. Can't beat them, join them!
This would not have anything to do with cops not wanting to bust fellow cops, would it? Just saying . . .
Prophet 22