This call annoys me..
Full Tilt Poker Game #8747950678: $22 + $2 Sit & Go (Turbo) (66849392), Table 1 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:08:43 ET - 2008/10/31
Seat 1: Jaggi1 (1,385), is sitting out
Seat 2: Bcboy72 (1,655)
Seat 3: checkdisouttt (2,165)
Seat 4: benjamin6611 (210)
Seat 5: Suki Royale (2,120)
Seat 6: robbyg1963 (1,465)
benjamin6611 posts the small blind of 30
Suki Royale posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bcboy72 [4d 2d]
Jaggi1 has returned
robbyg1963 folds
Jaggi1 has 15 seconds left to act
Jaggi1 folds
Bcboy72 folds
checkdisouttt folds
benjamin6611 raises to 210, and is all in
Suki Royale calls 150
benjamin6611 shows [Kc 8c]
Suki Royale shows [6s 5c]
*** FLOP *** [5s 8h 2s]
*** TURN *** [5s 8h 2s] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [5s 8h 2s 9h] [9c]
benjamin6611 shows two pair, Nines and Eights
Suki Royale shows two pair, Nines and Fives
benjamin6611 wins the pot (420) with two pair, Nines and Eights
Full table with a short stack (as you can see). Big stack feels it necessary to call with trash. Why? I see this all the time, big stack feels obligated to call the short stack, and very often, double them up. I can understand on the bubble...
Got in an argument about this at our home game the other night....utg is short stack, and pushes all in for about 30 bucks..(known tight)..folds around the table to bb, who says (with only about 100 bucks).."I have to call"..there are 5 people left out of 9 on the tourney table..and shows a 56o... Am I wrong? Is this somehow justified? He was adamant that he "had to call"...Utg flipped 77, and was happy of course with the call....
Help me out here?
Seat 1: Jaggi1 (1,385), is sitting out
Seat 2: Bcboy72 (1,655)
Seat 3: checkdisouttt (2,165)
Seat 4: benjamin6611 (210)
Seat 5: Suki Royale (2,120)
Seat 6: robbyg1963 (1,465)
benjamin6611 posts the small blind of 30
Suki Royale posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bcboy72 [4d 2d]
Jaggi1 has returned
robbyg1963 folds
Jaggi1 has 15 seconds left to act
Jaggi1 folds
Bcboy72 folds
checkdisouttt folds
benjamin6611 raises to 210, and is all in
Suki Royale calls 150
benjamin6611 shows [Kc 8c]
Suki Royale shows [6s 5c]
*** FLOP *** [5s 8h 2s]
*** TURN *** [5s 8h 2s] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [5s 8h 2s 9h] [9c]
benjamin6611 shows two pair, Nines and Eights
Suki Royale shows two pair, Nines and Fives
benjamin6611 wins the pot (420) with two pair, Nines and Eights
Full table with a short stack (as you can see). Big stack feels it necessary to call with trash. Why? I see this all the time, big stack feels obligated to call the short stack, and very often, double them up. I can understand on the bubble...
Got in an argument about this at our home game the other night....utg is short stack, and pushes all in for about 30 bucks..(known tight)..folds around the table to bb, who says (with only about 100 bucks).."I have to call"..there are 5 people left out of 9 on the tourney table..and shows a 56o... Am I wrong? Is this somehow justified? He was adamant that he "had to call"...Utg flipped 77, and was happy of course with the call....
Help me out here?
Comments
SB's push is standard.
BB's call is pretty much standard. Maybe a bit light but he is getting 2-1 on his money and he is most likely a 3-2 dog. It's a good bet.
The big blind calling 2-1 (with small unsuited cards) (150 into a 260 pot) for his money goes against the principle of pot odds does it not? Granted the situation is with a short stack, but still..we are talking trash cards...
2) cards are prob live
3) It's a TURBO.
1. 10% of his stack..in a (3.)TURBO game.. (10% isn't significant in a turbo game?)
2. yep, live...the only thing they have going.
My thoughts (obviously wrong) are that the blinds are at 60..let him push..he gains next to nothing. Call when you have something..keep your chips where they belong..in your stack.
NOT in turbo's. Turbo's are designed for one thing only...hit and get lucky. You're going to find most turbo players are very loose, very aggressive, you just have to hope to hit.
In heads up, suited really doesn't matter all that much. When you are playing against only one random hand, the fact that something is suited gives it less value then against 10 random hands. Same as connectors.
Basically just look at it this way for heads up.
The guy with the higher card before the flop comes has the best chance to win, assuming neither of you have a pair. Chances are you don't.
Then, when the flop comes, you and him both have under 50% chance to pair up.
So, I would say that yes, in this circumstance, since you would be knocking someone out and your cards will be worth more on the table after knocking him out, it's best to take the chance even if you are a little behind.
Read up on heads up circumstances. In this situation, it's pretty much the same. Short stacked SB push is pretty standard. He's hoping to get your BB and is also hoping for some luck if you call his push. It's the best situation for you, and you pretty much have to call.
You have to think of the SB as having a random hand, especially if the player is decent at poker and understands all of the above fairly well.
What about our second situation then? Known tight UTG pushes all in for 30 bucks, blinds are 4/8 (tourney sit.) BB should call the other 22 (with 100 in stack) when it is folded around to him with any two?
I think that one is a bit different and is a case of the thought that busting someone out is paramount regardless of your own situation. In reality I think calling off 1/4 of your chips with 6 high isn't very good. Give that bb the K8s from your previous hand and it becomes closer, his hand is much better than average. Or give him 300 chips and it's not as bad either.
Yeah, you have to look at how many chips you have as well and how it is going to affect your chances of winning the tournament.
I will sometimes try to suck someone out if I have the most chips at the table and they push an amount that isn't going to make a huge difference in whether or not I am going to win.
For example.
I play the 10 $11 buy ins at party. They start at 2,000 in chips.
Lets say there are 5 people left. I have 7,000 in chips. I have quite a bit more than anyone else at this point.
I'm sitting in BB and UTG raises all in. He has 800 in chips (blinds are at 200).
In this situation, I will call every time if no-one else does.
In your situation, I would suggest not calling.
What were the blinds at?
Was the other guy with 100 fairly short stacked compared to everyone else?
I say give him the blinds and wait until someone has a hand to knock him out, especially if he is tight. If the blinds are 5 or higher at this point, he might have just a random hand, but 6 high in a heads up situation is crap. What is your goal in that situation? To hit a straight on the flop? It's not worth it to call with 6 high when he probably has at least T high.
He doesn't have absolute crap if he's tight either. He decided to put all of his chips in with this hand, so you can give him the upper side of the starting hand side, and in a heads up situation, 56os is the lower side.
So, yeah, I say don't call in that situation. Save your chips and wait for a better time to knock him out.
I think (on top of having live cards and it being a short part of the BB's stack) that there is a subconscious desire to eliminate players. Think about what is shown on WSOP broadcasts, the exciting knockouts where a behind player catches the cards needed to bust the player who had the advantage.
In the bar free-roll I still occasionally play at, this is a common theme (the players soul is worth points and therefore have an additional value). I've seen people call off 80% of their stack to try to eliminate a player and get that soul.
So I suspect that's a piece of it, likely more than the recognized EV of the play especially at lower limit games.