2009 Satellite Format for NAPC - Thoughts
So I was talking with a few people today and we were discussing the NAPC satellites (crapshoot, skill level, etc) and we were trying to come up with a new format. From what I have experienced for the most part the 460s at fallsview have been well received (as much as they can be because of rake/structure etc) but the problem runs into the 1240 when you have to play that structure and the payout is 1-2.
What we proposed was to eliminate 70 dollar buy, or even 170 at this point.
3 Step tourney
Step 1 - 460 (keep the payout and structure the same)...top 3 get a 1240 seat, 4th gets the replay.
Step 2 *new* - is 1240 step but instead of having 1 winner do:
2x4500 vouchers
2x1240 vouchers
Then step 3 *new* would be a 4500.00 tourney entry where you have the top 3 getting a seat to the NAPC and then 2x4500 seats and 1x1240 seat.
Make them all single table satellites with the same structure as the 460 game. Then basically you run 460s and 1240s all the way up until maybe 3-4weeks before the main event and then start the 4500's.
I think this way you are able to get a bigger number of players into the main event and it adds to the prize pool. Plus with the structures similar to the 460 with payout and levels the tournies end faster allowing Fallsview to get more in during the weekend, etc...
What do people think?
What we proposed was to eliminate 70 dollar buy, or even 170 at this point.
3 Step tourney
Step 1 - 460 (keep the payout and structure the same)...top 3 get a 1240 seat, 4th gets the replay.
Step 2 *new* - is 1240 step but instead of having 1 winner do:
2x4500 vouchers
2x1240 vouchers
Then step 3 *new* would be a 4500.00 tourney entry where you have the top 3 getting a seat to the NAPC and then 2x4500 seats and 1x1240 seat.
Make them all single table satellites with the same structure as the 460 game. Then basically you run 460s and 1240s all the way up until maybe 3-4weeks before the main event and then start the 4500's.
I think this way you are able to get a bigger number of players into the main event and it adds to the prize pool. Plus with the structures similar to the 460 with payout and levels the tournies end faster allowing Fallsview to get more in during the weekend, etc...
What do people think?
Comments
I agree with this 100%.
Not everyone can afford the 460's and rely on the cheaper sats for their shots.
I like the proposed structure (3/10 > 1/10 imo.) but the cheap early steps should remain.
I'm sure we gave you our comments last year and what happened, satellite system got worse. Thanks!
Its just frustrating, potential is huge. Big tournament series, super satellites, etc.. But all we get is 1 main event and sng step satellites.
Agreed...it would be nice if they had a few events leading up to the main event instead of just the one event.
At least in the first year they had a lower buy-in event.
but if you do get interest, go ahead and run it on your own. don't waste your time trying to get fallsview to do things poker players want. of course, as we have learned, it is difficult to get relative strangers interested in a private game with a buyin of more than 100.
What this satellite structure does is increase the volume of games and also helps to build the tourney.
The average player at fallsview has no consideration of rake/buy in % like this board. If you tell them they have basically a 1-3 shot to get into a 10K event you will have a line up out the door.
The current $70 satellite appeals to the most people, who like gamboooling at a low cost, without caring about fees or EV. The less affordable $460 satellite needs more playing time (e.g., 2500 chips and 25-minute blinds) so the fees/hour charged to the players is not so obscene. Hopefully, Fallsview will have weekly cash SNGs based on the $1,240 and improved $460 satellites.
Mega satellites should be part of the next submission to the OLG for approval. OLG Casino Point Edward and Casino Brantford have great MTT satellites, along with the WSOP and Caesars Windsor.
Looks very good...of course the Step 1/A will probably have very very fast structure I would imagine...
This. I don't really care for driving down friday playing step 2. Then coming back saturday playing step 3, etc. Play 1 day, get my seat, go home.
The main idea is having 2-3 winners out of each bracket....having 1 out of 10 in the middle bracket is basically still the same as the 1240 right now. I am not in the satellite to win money...i want the highest % probability of getting a seat.
With the multiple step format like the one you described..play will still be long and you do not generate more entries really. The idea behind a satellite should be to get you into the main event so you can donk off 10K there...not trying to beat a single table sit and go.
Assuming Fallsview will have another event next year (hopefully with PokerStars or CPT if not with the WPT), it can make submissions to the OLG that will include the wants of gamblers, Fallsview cash game players and professionals (but not necessarily blackmagicz).
- Mega satellites generate the most seats per event and are popular for both gamblers and EV-aware players.
- Use the prize structure of the $460 Step 2 satellites (i.e., 3 or more ITM), but with just more play.
- Players must have a voucher before they can sit down for a satellite instead of not leaving any money and disappearing for 30 minutes. OLG Casino Brantford, Point Edward, Seneca, WSOP and every other casino that I have been to have better satellite procedures than WPT Niagara. This can have the biggest impact in maximizing the poker room's revenue/hour, instead of wasting up to one hour every satellite waiting from the time players are called to the time that cards actually fly.
LOL....sounds good. I'll take out my frustrations on you next year in the rake free satellites....:)
I would like to see more than 1 tournament! Have a series of games ending in the main event, you have the high rollers in town....make some money!
Use the empty tables in the tournament area for 1240 sats. You have the dealers there at the beginning. You could have had an additional 10, 1240 sats going on Firday, and Saturday.
- Two-winner satellites seem to be very popular. This is my favourite format. The advantages to the casino include twice as many seats awarded and the satellites always finish earlier as soon as it gets down to two players without a long heads-up battle.
- When I got sucked out on several times as a 93% favourite at Las Vegas, I would at least get to sit in another satellite and the time between my last hand and the first new hand dealt would be as little as five minutes. Fallsview finally ran the satellites efficiently and non-stop in the last few days, so it should use the same revenue-maximizing procedures throughout the satellite period.
- Have flexible staff scheduling and on-calls. There were a lot of instances where a satellite table would be opened with a dealer but it would be empty for many hours before the first satellite finally ran. In other instances, there were a lot of people waiting for satellites, but none of the empty tables would be opened up for hours and most of the players had given up and left by the time a table opened up.
- Half of the 300 seats in the WPT Grand Hall are empty. Apply to the AGCO to allow Mega satellites, single table satellites and cash games in the huge hall. Several of the professionals publicly said how disgusted they were with the waiting times at Fallsview and never played in the poker room.
- Like WPT Foxwoods, Turning Stone Casino, etc., encourage main event seat winners to continue playing the satellites by giving a cash payout for any subsequent seats won.
Definitely love the 2-3 seat formats. Its better for the prize pool as well
Overall I think it will take some time for Fallsview to adapt to a "poker players" casino and take some of our suggestions into account.
Talking with a number of name pros, Fallsview ranks as one of the worst poker rooms is all of North America.
They weren't referring to the NAPC Tournament - more about the poker room specifically IIRC.
I was referring to the poker room itself. Band playing right next to the room, craps tables yelling and screaming, poor lighting, long waiting lists and empty poker tables (this would indicate a staffing issue), dealers who can't get a dinner button to work properly and are more interested in chatting it up with regulars/making inappropriate comments, can't eat at the tables, no ipod, no phone, I can go on and on...
All these things which make the room "unfriendly" for poker players.
Overall, it really seems like the room wasn't thoroughly thought through, and was just put together at the last moment, overnight.
I used to play regularly at that room when it was openned and the 25/50 was running and was extremely juicey. I don't bother to go anymore except when going with friends for a night out.
Saved one before it was gone. He actually went through and deleted 175 posts. Wow. At least we know he was here...