Moving up...
This must be one of the most common questions, but I still have to ask it. How long do you typically need to be profitable at a certain limit before you can justify moving up? Ie: how long to assume skill has more to do with your profitability than just a run of hot cards? What kind of bankroll should you typically have? I typically am playing .25-.50 limit and .10-.25 NL online and am up after a month. I'm thinking I need a minimum 2 more months of being consistantly profitable (as well as padding the bankroll) before I rush into things. I know the answer is going to be: "What are you comfortable with?", but since I haven't gone on a horrible losing streak yet it's hard for me to objectively say...
Second question: What software would you guys recommend for tracking results? I've been using an excel spreadsheet, but lately I've been lazy at updating it...
Second question: What software would you guys recommend for tracking results? I've been using an excel spreadsheet, but lately I've been lazy at updating it...
Comments
Typically, you will want to have 300 times the big bet to have a bankroll capable of surviving the natural swings (i.e. don't move up a level until you have 300x the big bet for that level). This applies for limit, at least. I don't really play NL that much (except for tournaments), so I'm not sure if that is an accurate amount for a NL player. Perhaps some of the more senior members will have a better answer for you re: NL bankrolls.
As far as tracking software is concerned, you should look into Poker Tracker (www.pokertracker.com). If you search this forum, you will find numerous discussions about this software. As ScottyZ recommends, you should download the free trial first, and if you like it, it costs USD$55 to purchase a registration code. The trial is a full version of the software, but caps you at 1000 hands in the database.
I was using Excel at first, but I recently gave PT a try, and I will never go back. In addition to simply tracking win/loss rates, you can save EVERY hand you ever play to the database. This means that you can view stats on your starting cards (i.e. times held, profitability, etc.), and even view a replay of any hand. I have found these replays invaluable in improving my play, as I can watch a hand replay as if I am a third party, and view any mistakes I have made. In short, I think it is a great piece of software, but you should give the demo a try to see if you like it.
GG
Why move up if you're making money? There's no hurry. Ensure you have discipline -- playing position, and watching what you call two bets with. Can you withstand a cold streak of cards? Ensure you can adjust to different game conditions. Ensure you can win the battles in hands where you're up against one or two opponents. Then move up.
Cheers
Magi
Obviously to make more money. Why be a winning .05/.10 player when you can be a winning $1/$2 player?
He's not moving up from .25/.50 to $100/$200 .. we're talking about moves from .25/.50 to .50/1 to 1/2.. Aside from the larger $$$ being risked the games don't vary that much in skill. I'd say move up as soon as you got the 300BB or so. Go ahead and test the waters with less but be prepared to move down if you feel overwhelmed. The lower limit game will always be there to fall back on.
Ok, maybe my advice was a bit excessive. It's my personal style that makes me want to master something before going to the next level. Drives me nuts sometimes.
Personally, I believe the low limits are a training ground to learn different skills. Moving up requires more skill than learning starting cards based on position. Yes, that skill will work for .25/1, .5/1, 1/2, and even 2/4. But, when the losing starts to happen it's best to understand why. Knowing your strengths and weaknesses is key, even at these limits. When you know what to work on, it's much easier to fix (not easy though). And, it's much easier to work on things at a level where you're comfortable. There's no rush to move on -- especially since he's making money now.
My question on why to move up was really not trite. If you're moving up to make more money, it's for the wrong reasons. I believe moving up because you have the skills is the right reason -- the money will follow. As you know, poker is not a get rich quick scheme.
Cheers
Magi
Agreed. My point is that you can learn the same lessons (+more) playing .50/$1 or $1/$2 as you can in .25/.50. As long as your bankroll affords you the shot, why not take it? Its not like you are suggesting a player goes from .25/.50 says "PFFT POKER IS EASY!" and then sits in a 5/10 game. Not all your lessons can be taught at the smaller limits. You need that limit progression to expand your game and sitting too long at micro tables could be detrimental.
Again I'm confused. We're not playing poker to bring peace to the world. It's all about the bling bling.
I'm curious how you could ever know that you had the skills to beat a higher limit game if you never played in it? The best .25/.50 player would probably be a big loser in $5/$10.
I love this -- brought a smile to my face after a tough loss in the foxwoods qualifier. Without question, it's about the bling bling! I find I get more blings when I'm not concerened about the money, and I'm totally focused on making the right decisions for the right reasons. The money is my reward -- oh so nice reward -- for making the right decisions.
Agreed. At the limits we're talking about it's not that much of a leap from one level to the next, and if he has the bankroll for the higher limit then by all means. I just believe people incorrectly assume that when they hit a certain level of a bankroll they're ready to move up. I think there are a few different skills to learn. And, the best place is where your comfortable -- it's alot more fun learning when you're winning.
Just my thoughts. And, sometimes just jumping in is a good thing.
Cheers
Magi
Bill
MTT = Multi Table Tournament
MTT = Multi Table Tournament
GG