What's Your Play - Version 2.0

Maxing Value - Another part of my game that needs developing.

Obv. set mining here and flop pretty much the nuts. V1 doesnt seem like a typical Shortstacker based on his play. V2 and I have some history. I semi-bluff shoved on him about 2 orbits earlier at another table and went RR flush. Based on previous chat he is still steaming.

Whats the play?

Full Tilt Poker Game #7921581898: Table Verbena Creek - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:53:19 ET - 2008/09/03
Seat 1: TheBelgarion ($167.55)
Seat 2: Wetts1012 ($198)
Seat 3: eelnip ($106.35)
Seat 4: MarcoTheBEAST ($110)
Seat 5: tarath ($222.60)
Seat 6: Lightning99 ($59)
Seat 7: punkkid_here ($277.35)
Seat 8: JAMJKM1213 ($35)
Seat 9: Don Jives ($114.40)
JAMJKM1213 posts the small blind of $1
Don Jives posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Wetts1012 [7c 7h]
Wetts1012 has reconnected
Wetts1012 calls $2
eelnip folds
MarcoTheBEAST folds
tarath folds
Lightning99 raises to $10
punkkid_here folds
JAMJKM1213 folds
Don Jives folds
TheBelgarion calls $8
Wetts1012 calls $8
*** FLOP *** [7d Ts 2h]
TheBelgarion checks
Wetts1012 checks
Lightning99 bets $25
TheBelgarion calls $25
??

Comments

  • That's a great flop for you... only "draw" out there is 89 - which is unlikely given PF action

    I'd likely flat this bet on the flop, check into the short stack on the turn who HAS to bet his remaining $24, I'm assuming TheBelgarion will call that $24, leaving him with $108 back, and the pot swelling to $153. I can't really imagine a scare card on the turn here, JQ isn't seeing past the flop, so I can only imagine villain has an over pair or something like A10.

    Anyways... when that last $24 goes in and is called, here's where you raise IMO. The pot goes to $177 with a call, so a raise of about $80 brings it to $257 - or >3:1 odds for the villain. If he calls, he's put another $80 of his 108, and he's committed. If he's going to call, he may as well push.

    Reasoning: He may think you're pushing him off again - ideally the turn card is a second flush card or something since you like those runner runners (in his mind). If you think he'll call a push, then just push.

    Mark
  • With that flop, I'd just call. I think raising here broadcasts the fact that you made a set. Check again on the turn and hope for another bet, then shove.
  • ok i will be the contrarian.

    you are 99+% likely to have the best hand here. you want to get all the money in the middle. your best shot to do this is before a scare card hits.

    don't worry about the shortie. he has more than half his stack in there now and he is going nowhere. you gotta figure out how to get the other guy's stack in there.

    i'm curious what he could have to call a raise OOP then call a big bet on the flop OOP. i suppose a draw or badly played overpair? or maybe he figures you will fold on this flop and he is likely to beat shortie with a small pair or 2 overs? i dunno but his play seems weak. of course he could be trapping YOU with TT but i discount this.

    what cards could scare him? if he has 2pr (aka two pair), overpair or 22, then 6 or J might do it, if he puts you on a draw when you call. if he has some middling pair then any A or K would likely be a scare card. if he is on the draw, you gotta get the money in before the river as he obv calls nothing on the river if he misses. so it has to be in by the turn.

    if you call, the pot has around 105 and a push on the turn is a huge overbet. on balance, i say put in the min-raise now. i expect shortie to call and the other guy, getting 6-1 would be hard pressed to fold. shove the turn and he's getting close to 3-1 to call.

    flame away.

    p.s. lot of donkeys defend with 98. soooted or otherwise
  • I would also raise here based solely on the raiser's stack. And my raise would be enough to put the pf raiser all-in (i.e. a min raise), which he surely will call. Then my next move is to shove a re-raise from villain 2 on the flop. Or if he flat calls my flop min-raise, I shove the turn unless one of my 7 outs hit in which case I slowplay.
  • I normally will probably lean toward's taking the call flop, C-R turn line, BUT given your recent history, CR here isn't too bad of a play. Make it like $75 or something and shove turn I guess? I kind of like the let the shortie make the betting for you on the turn and get it in behind...meh
  • With at least $108 in the pot and the SPR (stack-to-pot ratio) at 1.3 or less, all three players are pretty much committed. Either flat calling or min-raising are likely to get all the money in, but I would agree with pkrfce9 that min-raising has a marginally higher EV. If the stacks were deeper, it would be easier for Villain 2 to get away on the turn, so raising on the flop would be better than calling.
    pkrfce9 wrote: »
    on balance, i say put in the min-raise now. i expect shortie to call and the other guy, getting 6-1 would be hard pressed to fold. shove the turn and he's getting close to 3-1 to call.
  • Calling here doesn't make sense as it would be an alarm bell to the other two players given the short stack and a flop with no reasonable draws. A call would put you on a decent hand and with that flop there aren't many. I am reraising here about $75 more. This reraise says very little about your hand and it will be tough for the other two to put you on a narrow range. Lighting should call and then there's a tempting side pot for the other villan to go for. If he has A 10 or an over pair or thinks you are trying to take it down it's all going in and you should win a good pot.

    I could also justify a shove here as it may make your hand look even weaker. I would have a tough time putting you on trips here if you shoved. However I would be able to range your hand down to 2 overs, pocket overpair or A 10 which may allow me to get out of the way.

    I think the standard reraise is your best bet which says little about your hand and begs a reraise by a decent hand.
  • I could also justify a shove here as it may make your hand look even weaker. I would have a tough time putting you on trips here if you shoved. However I would be able to range your hand down to 2 overs, pocket overpair or A 10 which may allow me to get out of the way.


    I chose this line - based on my history with V2. I am obv already investing V1's $ cuz he is terrible for not calling here. This line would not work in most situations - which I understand is not the best EV choice.

    I like the minraise line vs. random villain. fwiw villain called me a "fonk" after the hand, which is now my new fav. term.

    I was relatively surprised at the strength of both hands.


    *** FLOP *** [7d Ts 2h]
    TheBelgarion checks
    Wetts1012 checks
    Lightning99 bets $25
    TheBelgarion calls $25
    Wetts1012 raises to $188, and is all in
    Lightning99 calls $24, and is all in
    TheBelgarion calls $132.55, and is all in
    Wetts1012 shows [7c 7h]
    Lightning99 shows [Ks Kd]
    TheBelgarion shows [Ad Ac]
    Uncalled bet of $30.45 returned to Wetts1012
    *** TURN *** [7d Ts 2h] [4s]
    *** RIVER *** [7d Ts 2h 4s] [Jc]
    Wetts1012 shows three of a kind, Sevens
    TheBelgarion shows a pair of Aces
    Wetts1012 wins the side pot ($217.10) with three of a kind, Sevens
    Lightning99 shows a pair of Kings
    Wetts1012 wins the main pot ($177) with three of a kind, Sevens
    TheBelgarion is sitting out
    Lightning99 adds $40
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $397.10 Main pot $180. Side pot $217.10. | Rake $3
    Board: [7d Ts 2h 4s Jc]
    Seat 1: TheBelgarion showed [Ad Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
    Seat 2: Wetts1012 showed [7c 7h] and won ($394.10) with three of a kind, Sevens
    Seat 3: eelnip didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 4: MarcoTheBEAST didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 5: tarath didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 6: Lightning99 showed [Ks Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
    Seat 7: punkkid_here (button) didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 8: JAMJKM1213 (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 9: Don Jives (big blind) folded before the Flop
  • The 'overpair vs. trips' matchup always leads to fireworks. Nice.
  • Ya know what's fun?

    Getting berated by the guy who didn't re-raise with KK...

    Mmmmm..

    Mark
  • Lol at what was turned over. This hand should have been all-in pf with AA vs. KK. I don't mind the limp with AA too much depending on the likelyhood of a raise but there it was and AA has to jump all over that when it gets back to him (he limped early right?). That's why you limp with AA early.

    The raise was from shortie so that should have been the target of AA. lololol.
  • Lol at what was turned over. This hand should have been all-in pf with AA vs. KK. I don't mind the limp with AA too much depending on the likelyhood of a raise but there it was and AA has to jump all over that when it gets back to him (he limped early right?). That's why you limp with AA early.

    The raise was from shortie so that should have been the target of AA. lololol.


    Far worse imo.

    He flats from the BB PF.
    He check/calls the flop.
  • Wetts1012 wrote: »
    Far worse imo.

    He flats from the BB PF.
    He check/calls the flop.

    But in his world, YOU'RE the donk for playing such a crap pair.

    Love it when they think they're aces and kings are indestructable and you show them they're not. Always good for a laugh. NH Darryl, well played.
  • I think I would have led the flop, for about $20 (2/3rd the pot.) Looking for Lightning99to ship in his last $49 which would re-open the betting and then get TheBelgarionto call at which point you can re-pop all-in.

    With their hands it would have work out no matter how you played the hand.

    TheBelgarion might have been able to get away, after all he is a bet, he calls and then you shove, that seems like a trap to me. Check/shove usually means better then one pair.
  • Wetts1012 wrote: »
    Far worse imo.

    He flats from the BB PF.
    He check/calls the flop.
    He is UTG pf, "Don Jives posts the big blind of $2". I actually don't mind his flat call on that dry flop. He is playing shortie all-in and with that board he is ahead of hero most of the time. He is trapping hero by either shoving a flop raise or shoving any turn card. BB can have two pair here sometimes but that board doesn't look like he paired both cards.

    Actually, I don't mind his play on every street. Looking back, his flat call pf is not too bad since he is closing the action with two opponents, and one can't hurt him to bad. A lot of times he is going to trap BB for a smaller overpair or TPTK. And given his image, he might just get called by lesser hands like a pair and a gutshot.

    I'd be curious to see what hero would do if the flop was somthing like T 8 6.

  • I'd be curious to see what hero would do if the flop was somthing like T 8 6.

    I am probably check folding any non-set. Once in a while I may lead for 18ish and see what happens but that seems kind of spewish given Im folding to any aggression.

    It would be interesting to know what others would do.
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