What's Your Play?

Wetts1012Wetts1012
in No Limit / Pot Limit Holdem
No history with Villain.

Full Tilt Poker Game #7918840908: Table Anthem Club - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:48:42 ET - 2008/09/03
Seat 1: ilats ($208.05)
Seat 2: Wetts1012 ($152.45)
Seat 3: HEAT0018 ($565.80)
Seat 4: JimmyBlux ($200)
Seat 5: Kronprinz79 ($36)
Seat 6: DJMedina ($187)
Seat 7: BigJohn32 ($206.20)
Seat 8: Ess Eye Dee ($452.35)
Seat 9: BIGTRBL ($198.30)
JimmyBlux posts the small blind of $1
Kronprinz79 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Wetts1012 [Kc Ac]
DJMedina calls $2
BigJohn32 folds
Ess Eye Dee raises to $9
BIGTRBL folds
ilats folds
Wetts1012 calls $9
HEAT0018 folds
JimmyBlux adds $1
JimmyBlux folds
Kronprinz79 folds
DJMedina folds
*** FLOP *** [3c 4d 9c]
Ess Eye Dee has 15 seconds left to act
Ess Eye Dee bets $18
Wetts1012 has 15 seconds left to act

Comments

  • MarcoGDMarcoGD
    Not crazy about the flat call pre-flop, I think a 3bet would have better defined your hand. That aside, his post-flop bet looks like a CBet, I'm probably re-raising to around $50 hoping he'll fold.
  • ReefAquariumReefAquarium
    MarcoGD wrote: »
    Not crazy about the flat call pre-flop, I think a 3bet would have better defined your hand. That aside, his post-flop bet looks like a CBet, I'm probably re-raising to around $50 hoping he'll fold.

    Folding is fine too.

    Another line is flat calling and seeing what he does on the turn. If he checks to a brick you can try to take the pot away on the turn.

    But without reads I'm leaning to folding my A high.
  • MarcoGDMarcoGD
    ReefAquarium wrote: »
    But without reads I'm leaning to folding my A high.

    Really? You'd be able to fold your nut flush draw? I must really suck!
  • trip_billiestrip_billies
    Hmmm..tough one without any history on villian. I could not put him on trips, AA, or KK given the size of pre and post-flop raises - most likely 88, TT, JJ, QQ, or even AK. I think about 20% of the time I fold, 40% call and re-evaluate on the turn, and 40% push (as a pot size re-raise gets you pretty much pot committed anyway given your stack size) with what is likely 15 good outs. If I call and he bets out on an unhelpful turn I fold.
    Interested to see how this one ended up...
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    I re-raise pre-flop, you have a good hand and position, put the screws to him. A decent re-raise there will cost you $30, compare that to where this hand's going...

    As is, in this situation, it looks like a C-bet, I would consider re-popping. The pot's at ~$40, if you call it goes $60, and a decent repop means you put in about $80 and as tripbillies said, that commits you.

    If you're afraid, or playing above your BR, fold and save your money... but I'd likely push on what could be 15 outs (making you a favorite), or in the worst case scenario give you about 30%

    Mark
  • westside8westside8
    Re-raise pre-flop. As played, raise this sucker.
  • actyperactyper
    I'm pretty sure I raise this about 99.99% of the time.

    Reef how do you fold that hand? Your pretty much a favourite over most hands!
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Here's the rest - Results in white -

    When he shoves I'm pretty sure my A/K are live as well.

    Wetts1012 has 15 seconds left to act
    Wetts1012 raises to $42
    Ess Eye Dee has 15 seconds left to act
    Ess Eye Dee raises to $425.35, and is all in
    Wetts1012 calls $69.45, and is all in
    Ess Eye Dee shows [Qd Qc]
    Wetts1012 shows [Kc Ac]
    Uncalled bet of $299.90 returned to Ess Eye Dee
    *** TURN *** [3c 4d 9c] [8h]
    *** RIVER *** [3c 4d 9c 8h] [Tc]
    Ess Eye Dee shows a pair of Queens
    Wetts1012 shows a flush Ace high
    Wetts1012 wins the pot ($306.90) with a flush Ace high
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $309.90 | Rake $3
    Board: [3c 4d 9c 8h Tc]
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    Ship it in and win right there.

    Unless he has Aces, Kings or a set you are a favourite to win, and if he does then you still have outs to win with the nut flush draw.

    Against a pocket pair it is pretty 50/50.

    If you raise and he calls what are you going to do on the turn when a blank hits and he bets or if a blank hits and he checks? Once the turn comes and if it is a brick you are no longer a favourite to win. Plus any raise you put on the flop will basically commit you to the hand so just put it in now while you are a favourite to win.
  • PantsonfirePantsonfire
    I think is pretty standard. Most of the time you are going to get it all-in against an over pair and be in the lead. Occasionally you will be against a set or AA and be 35%. Sometimes you will be against QJc and really be ahead.

    And a lot of times you will be against AQ, AJ or KQ and will win the pot with a flop raise.

    So overall, I think it is +EV to think all all-in on the flop so a raise is pretty much the best play to head in that direction.

    BTW, if I am villain here, I just call that flop raise and shove any non-club or non-A or K.
  • westside8westside8
    Pantsonfire wrote: »
    BTW, if I am villain here, I just call that flop raise and shove any non-club or non-A or K.

    This is a huge assumption. You are assuming he is putting you on exactly AKcc. Seeing as you called in position with no history, your range is pretty wide.
    Pantsonfire wrote: »
    I think is pretty standard. Most of the time you are going to get it all-in against an over pair and be in the lead. Occasionally you will be against a set or AA and be 35%. Sometimes you will be against QJc and really be ahead.

    And a lot of times you will be against AQ, AJ or KQ and will win the pot with a flop raise.

    So basically what you are saying is that you want the opponent to fold hands that you're ahead off, and call with hands that you're behind most of the time with your stack in the middle?
  • PantsonfirePantsonfire
    westside8 wrote: »
    So basically what you are saying is that you want the opponent to fold hands that you're ahead off, and call with hands that you're behind most of the time with your stack in the middle?
    I'm not sure what you are saying here but I'm going to assume that you are against raising the flop.

    So what happens if we call? Most of the time villain is going to have AJ-AK or TT-QQ. If he has other than AK, then a K on the turn is going to slow him down. If he has TT-QQ then an A or K on the turn is going to slow him down. A club will also slow him down. Now we can only hope to get a half pot bet out of him.

    If the turn is a blank, we are now behind all paired hands which is bad. We are still ahead of Ax other than AK but he probably won't want to pay too much and neither would hero with A high. As well, the turn card could put his hand well ahead of hero by pairing his kicker or turning him a set.

    So the basic problem with calling the flop is that either it is a blank, and you are now well behind, or it is a hit which may cause villain to shut down.
  • westside8westside8
    Pantsonfire wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you are saying here but I'm going to assume that you are against raising the flop.

    So what happens if we call? Most of the time villain is going to have AJ-AK or TT-QQ. If he has other than AK, then a K on the turn is going to slow him down. If he has TT-QQ then an A or K on the turn is going to slow him down. A club will also slow him down. Now we can only hope to get a half pot bet out of him.

    If the turn is a blank, we are now behind all paired hands which is bad. We are still ahead of Ax other than AK but he probably won't want to pay too much and neither would hero with A high. As well, the turn card could put his hand well ahead of hero by pairing his kicker or turning him a set.

    So the basic problem with calling the flop is that either it is a blank, and you are now well behind, or it is a hit which may cause villain to shut down.

    Nope. I'm all for raising the flop, but I'm against the idea of moving your stack in when you're probably going to be only called by hands that you're behind on, and making hands that you want to call you fold.

    By raising to an amount like $60, you leave yourself with almost a half pot bet back. Even shoving a blank turn, your equity in the pot improves assuming he did have a hand like QJcc, or a mid-pocket pair since he'll fold a reasonable amoutn of the time. Even if called, you are essentially getting 3 to 1 on your push when you are better than 3 to 1 against all hands except for a set and AA. You will probably also chase out the AK/AQ type hands by raising without putting your entire stack at risk

    Raising the flop, and shoving any turn, you give your opponent a chance to fold hands that could still be ahead on the turn (assuming you miss) since you've applied so much pressure on the villain (like a mid-pocket pair).
  • ReefAquariumReefAquarium
    ReefAquarium wrote: »
    Folding is fine too.

    Another line is flat calling and seeing what he does on the turn. If he checks to a brick you can try to take the pot away on the turn.

    But without reads I'm leaning to folding my A high.

    Duh, missed the flush draw...
  • PantsonfirePantsonfire
    westside8 wrote: »
    Nope. I'm all for raising the flop, but I'm against the idea of moving your stack in when you're probably going to be only called by hands that you're behind on, and making hands that you want to call you fold.
    I didn't say anything about moving in on the flop, only to raise it up with the intention of getting it in. Besides, you will be called by a lot of hands that you are ahead of.

    And further, I understand the concept of being called only by hands you are ahead of and making worse hands fold. I apply this concept to way ahead/way behind hands and river situations where your bet will only be called by a better hand (i.e. a check is the right play). I don't find this hand to fit into either of those scenarios.

    Personally, I don't mind getting hands to fold that I am only slightly ahead of. And that is the likely scenario here.
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